Jefferson should officially be on the trading block

[juche68]

Finally! Someone who really gets it.

Al being in the game changes all sorts of dynamics in the game.

Al not running any pick and rolls really hurts our team. His standing around just gets in the way.
How is it that some of these so called professionals can't run the pick and roll? Or don't know why they should be doing it?

Good question. I think Big Al would've been a beast in the 80s to the early/mid 90s, when many teams played a slow, methodical, half-court game. He would've been awesome on those Fratello-coached Cavs teams that bored everyone to tears. Unfortunately, for him, the game has changed, and he's a dinosaur among cheetahs. He's just not a good fit with the flex offense/PnRs. He's basically a shorter, not-as-talented version of Yao, who also slowed down the Rockets' offense, but at least he could play some defense and rebound, mostly due to his height. This is why he should go to the Rockets, if McHale is still employing the same kind of dump-it-down-to-the-big-man offense. He can re-live his postup glory days through Big Al. And allow the Jazz to fully flesh out its tweaked flex offense headed by Favors, Harris, Hayward, etc. I'd even bet that Kanter would be more adept at PnRs than Big Al, if his 15-20 jump shot is as money as advertised.

 

[utahjazz107]

To prove it works:

https://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=86l6raa


Jazz would save a lot of money with this one.

I don't think either of those trades. We are trying to clear minutes not add players like Scola IMO. Our frontcourt minutes are set with Millsap-Kanter-Favors. If we want to clear cap space, we would do a trade similar to the one Minny did with us. I'd rather get more draft picks and save cap then get more mediocre players.

 

[juche68]

To best describe Al Jefferson would be to say he is like a square tire on your car.

A dependable square tire on a Porsche. Okay maybe not a Porsche but some kind of fast car. In any case, you need the right parts for the right car, and Big Al just doesn't fit.

 

[Beantown]

I don't think either of those trades. We are trying to clear minutes not add players like Scola IMO. Our frontcourt minutes are set with Millsap-Kanter-Favors. If we want to clear cap space, we would do a trade similar to the one Minny did with us. I'd rather get more draft picks and save cap then get more mediocre players.

I agree I like the Hills/Thabeet trade better than Scola. If the Jazz trade Jefferson they have to get another big guy back. Jazz would be too thin up front.

 

[juche68]

I like that trade. Lowry is turning into a pretty darn good player

I like that trade too. I think the Rockets would go for it, especially if we throw in a 1st rounder. I still really like Iggy though. I'd also try to throw in Bell instead of Miles, but I'm sure the Rockets would say no.

 

[juche68]

Also according to ESPN Trade Machine, trading Al/Harris for Dalembert/Lowry works without having to throw in Bell or Miles. We would save about $4000 and according to Hollinger's analysis our wins would go up +23.

 

[juche68]

But as a caveat, I don't think the Jazz will trade Harris unless it's for someone amazing. With the tweaked flex offense, I don't think they want to re-teach a new PG how to run it when the season has already started and the condensed schedule allows for such few practices. I also think the frontcourt logjam is a bigger issue than PG, where we have two capable pass-first backups (Watson, Tinsley). So I say focus on moving Big Al and either get a veteran C (not another project C) who won't mind sitting back while letting the Millsap-Favors-Kanter rotation develop and flourish, or better yet, get a quality perimeter defender like Iggy at the SF spot, allowing Hayward to play at his more natural playmaking position of SG, and then signing a veteran FA C like Pryzbilla or even resigning Elson to bolster the frontcourt. I don't know much about Jordan Hill but if he can also be that active, perimeter defender at the SF spot, then we'll be covered there, since I have a feeling Howard is going to get better once he gets more comfortable in the system.

 

[utahjazz107]

But as a caveat, I don't think the Jazz will trade Harris unless it's for someone amazing. With the tweaked flex offense, I don't think they want to re-teach a new PG how to run it when the season has already started and the condensed schedule allows for such few practices. I also think the frontcourt logjam is a bigger issue than PG, where we have two capable pass-first backups (Watson, Tinsley). So I say focus on moving Big Al and either get a veteran C (not another project C) who won't mind sitting back while letting the Millsap-Favors-Kanter rotation develop and flourish, or better yet, get a quality perimeter defender like Iggy at the SF spot, allowing Hayward to play at his more natural playmaking position of SG, and then signing a veteran FA C like Pryzbilla or even resigning Elson to bolster the frontcourt. I don't know much about Jordan Hill but if he can also be that active, perimeter defender at the SF spot, then we'll be covered there, since I have a feeling Howard is going to get better once he gets more comfortable in the system.

The difference between an SG and SF on the offense end is pretty minimal. I think Hayward is fine at SF. We need to trade Jefferson and a wing like Miles/Bell to give Burks some minutes.

 

[memo is money]

https://1320kfan.com/index.php/story/read/digging_deep_on_al_jeffersons_impact

The Jazz got their first win of the year last night and it was without Al Jefferson. The easy answer for fans would to realize the team was home against a lesser opponent than the Lakers and the Nuggets. However, instead the reaction is did the Jazz win because they didn’t have Al Jefferson.

I think this is a vast overstatement and over simplification. You need a sample size much larger than one game and you need to play different types of teams. However, Al Jefferson is a interesting case to study. The ball did move better without him last night. The team seemed quicker and faster.

Jefferson gives a team a low post scorer that is hard to come by. Post all-star break last year he averaged 22 points and 11 rebounds. That is hard to find in this league. However, Jefferson has some statistically issues that makes you wonder what his impact on a team is beyond the big point and rebound totals.

Last year, according to 82games.com Jefferson out produced his counterpart at center each nice considerably but the Jazz were worse when he was on the floor than when he was on the bench. For the season the Jazz were outscored by 2.8 points per 48 minutes when Jefferson was on the floor and when he was on the bench the Jazz outscored their opponents by .9 pts. This may be a little misleading because after the Deron Williams trade Jefferson played more minutes. But when put in a large context it makes you wonder a bit about Jefferson on floor impact.

<STATs in real article>

There are some revealing items here but not as much as everyone might believe. For all the talk about lack of ball movement and Jefferson being a black hole his teams have universally been better over the last 5 years when he is on the floor offensively. This can be a statement about who the other players on his teams have been, but it is telling that his teams are better offensively on the floor.

Defensively, two years jump out at you. Last year the Jazz were a tremendous amount better with Jefferson off the floor and the same was true in his first year in Minnesota. Interesting that both of these are his first year with teams and that his teams may adjust to his strength and weaknesses as Corbin is trying to do this year.

Bottom line, Al Jefferson has some weaknesses and needs to adjust his game for the betterment of his team, but claiming that last night’s performance is a undeniablesign that the team is better without Jefferson is hard to quantify.

This...

 

[juche68]

https://1320kfan.com/index.php/story/read/digging_deep_on_al_jeffersons_impact



This...

This...is a good analysis, thanks for posting. As for my own, it's not just based on yesterday's game, but last season as well. Big Al had some great offensive games with blocked shots, and he had some not-so-great games, which happens to everyone. But what's consistent and troubling is the lack of ball movement, and therefore, a lack of involvement, and therefore, too much dependency on one person to deliver. Speaking of delivery, in the mid to late 80s, when the offense largely revolved around dumping it down to Malone and letting him go to work, the Jazz were good, but not great. It was only when we got Jeff Malone, and then really, Hornacek, and then some good role players like Russell and Shandon Anderson, that the offense really developed, players got involved, Malone zipped passes to a number of cutters, and the Jazz went from good to Finals. Could Big Al develop into that kind of player, given the same amount of time as Malone? I'm not sure. And after watching him play not just one game, but a number of years, on several teams, methinks he won't. That's what made Karl great--even later in life, he was still willing and able to develop his game, become a better passer, develop a consistent outside shot, all the while playing great man-to-man and decent help defense. I don't think Big Al has those intangibles. But from watching Favors play, I think he has more potential to be that all-around player who knows when and who to pass out of double teams, gives "monster" screens like the one he gave last night to free up Hayward's last shot, and rotate nimbly on the defensive end. So I'd put my money on Favors, and trade Big Al to a more suitable team where he can flourish and be appreciated for what he can offer.

 

[bordelais7]

Hard to believe that a site called 82games.com should be given any credibility in a 66-game season.

 

[freakazoid]

The Jazz got their first win of the year last night and it was without Al Jefferson. The easy answer for fans would to realize the team was home against a lesser opponent than the Lakers and the Nuggets. However, instead the reaction is did the Jazz win because they didn’t have Al Jefferson.

I think this is a vast overstatement and over simplification.
This...

+1

All three games started pretty much the same, in that it was either tied or a one point game when Al/Sap was subbed out in the first. The starting lineup change was not some major difference in the win compared to the two losses.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Also, who is knocking on the door right now asking for Jefferson? There may be some, but they are probably hoping to buy low on him. Give him more time and let him improve within the team then maybe trade him then when he gains value.

This is the only thing that gives me pause in imagining the trade climate and scenarios.

But if it gives the Jazz their offense back, then the Jazz should pay someone to take him off our hands.

 

[NUMBERICA]

P.S. Al losing is a tradition. Correlation doesn't necessarily show cause, but with enough of it, it sure starts to look like cause.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Also, pretty sure the Rockets aren't trading Lowry. If they would, you pull the trigger before they think too hard.

Unfortunately, Al doesn't seem at all like a Morey player (looks good in advanced stats [particularly getting to the line and/or +/-] or a lottery bust).

 

[freakazoid]

But if it gives the Jazz their offense back, then the Jazz should pay someone to take him off our hands.

I don't think Deron, Booze, and Korver are coming back.

 

[juche68]

Also, pretty sure the Rockets aren't trading Lowry. If they would, you pull the trigger before they think too hard.

Unfortunately, Al doesn't seem at all like a Morey player (looks good in advanced stats [particularly getting to the line and/or +/-] or a lottery bust).

Especially after tonight's 16 assist game. I wish we had that. But we're not going to, from Harris or from a traded Lowry. The only player on our roster who's capable is Tinsley, if he can somehow travel back in time to 2003.

And agreed, Al is a losing tradition. Tonight he got his regular 20/10, and we got a loss. And both Millsap and Favors played less than 30 minutes each. Not good.

 

[Beantown]

I don't know how tradable he will be. I still think Houston is the only team desperate enough to trade for him.

 

[BluesRocker]

Ughhhhh!

Is Al Jefferson gone yet? This is taking way too long.

This garbage basketball is hard to watch.

Well at least he is leading us to the first pick in the draft. Maybe we do need him afterall.
I'm afraid that if we did trade him we would win some games and not get a good lottery pick.

This is going to be a tough 4 months to stomach. Hopefully we don't keep him for another year after this year. But we probably will. Because KOC is hell bent on proving he made a good decision.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't think Deron, Booze, and Korver are coming back.

The Flex Offense pre-dates those players, as does ball movement in general.

I know, it's nuts.