Jerry Sloan - do we want him back?

[Deleted member 848]

Dalamon, did you just recently find out about the "Insert Image" button?

Hey Cy,

 

[InGameStrategy]

Blah blah blah..are'nt you tired of repeating this same crap? Maybe your boring job has really gotten to you. Or maybe it is me who missed Boozer turning into an all-NBA 1s team defense player leading Bulls to multiple championships under Thibodeau.

Yes, I am tired of repeating it. That's why I don't do it as often as I used to. It would be much more fun to have a coach who preaches defense & development and enforces it. Kind of like Popovich does. But this "crap" still holds true.

Are you tired yet of being an apologist for Sloan's subpar lineups and player development?

Key difference between Sloan and Thibodeau:
TT had the cojones to sit Boozer's Alaskan *** down when CB wasn't pulling his weight D-wise.
I would've liked to see what Thibodeau would've done on the Jazz sideline.
If TT couldn't turn Boozer into a defender, he could sit him down every time Booze dogged it and play more of Millsap and the other bigs who actually controlled the paint.

In two years, TT led the Bulls to an equal number regular-season titles in the Eastern Conference (no longer a wall flower) before facing a talented (and also overpaid) Heat team last year and a slew of injuries this year. I don't need to justify using a sophomore coach who has outperformed expectations as an example.

Or the brilliance of Carlisle working for a billionaire owner who could buy just about all the players they needed year after year for a decade until they found a pricey enough team which could muster a whopping ONE championship.Hmm..pretty compelling examples you have there to show why those coaches are in a different stratosphere as compared to Sloan

Hmm...such deep pockets wasn't enough for the rest of the decade of which you speak.

If you don't recognize the difference between Carlisle getting the Mavs to play just enough defense to eke out a title (as opposed to his predecessors not being able to do so, despite the same high payroll), then you're being disingenuous.

 

[vj_74]

Yes, I am tired of repeating it. That's why I don't do it as often as I used to. .

I find that hard to believe

It would be much more fun to have a coach who preaches defense & development and enforces it. Kind of like Popovich does. But this "crap" still holds true.

Popovich is a great coach. That doesnt mean Sloan is sub-par or lacks fudamentals of coaching. Only one or two teams in the NBA can afford to have someone like Popovich or Phil Jackson anyways.

Are you tired yet of being an apologist for Sloan's subpar lineups and player development?

Sloan had to deal with what he was given with. As for player development numersous scrubs have blossomed into decent role players under Sloan and have gone back to becoming scrubs when they left the Jazz. Memo and Booz both have credited Sloan a lot for them becoming all stars as did Millsap and numerous others. Again, you know all this and we have gone over this umpteen times, but just for old times sake, I guess one more time

Key difference between Sloan and Thibodeau:
TT had the cojones to sit Boozer's Alaskan *** down when CB wasn't pulling his weight D-wise.
I would've liked to see what Thibodeau would've done on the Jazz sideline.
If TT couldn't turn Boozer into a defender, he could sit him down every time Booze dogged it and play more of Millsap and the other bigs who actually controlled the paint.

He could do it in Chicago(albeit only partially) when he had other options on offense like Rose or Deng or Noah. If he did that while coaching in Utah the Jazz would not have made the playoffs leave alone reaching the WCF in 2007. You take the negatives with the positives as far as Booz is concerned. It is a tradeoff all the time. This is not the NFL where you sit down your best offensive players and switch to an all-defense team. Now there are players who could play both ends, but we didnt have a lot of them.

Hmm...such deep pockets wasn't enough for the rest of the decade of which you speak.

If you don't recognize the difference between Carlisle getting the Mavs to play just enough defense to eke out a title (as opposed to his predecessors not being able to do so, despite the same high payroll), then you're being disingenuous

Disingenuity is when you fail to recognize that Carlisle's predecessors also didnt have the defensive players like Chandler and Jason Kidd(was old, but was still effective on defense 80% of the time) and Butler(even if he didnt play all games) and couple of other role players like Haywood who came off the bench and busted their butts on D. Carlisle did do a good job but it was not as if the team was
lacking on defensive players and it was Carlisle's genius that saw them through.I wont accept that BS.

Did Carlisle bench Nowitzki everytime he played medicore defense? Nope, he knew Nowitzki had a firm ceiling on defense much like Boozer. Nowitzki will never be all-NBA team defender. He is an average defender at best but was their best offensive player. So do you bench him, or do you take his offense and surround him with other guys who can protect the paint and perimeter better like a Chandler or Haywood or Butler or Kidd?
Looks like if you were the Suns coach you would have Nash firmly tied to the bench all the time for his defense.

Booz and Okur were guys who were limited on D as well as had to conserve their energy on D to do it on O. Thats just the players they were. You want to bench them for that, you had to bench them 70% of the time. The Jazz just didnt have an enforcer on defense. I thought even Deron got away lightly on this board for his efforts on pick and roll D a lot of times, thanks to Booz and Okur taking all the blame.The main Jazz guys were all not great defensive players.

And Millsap?Puhleeze.. Millsap was overmatched a lot of times and especially in the playoffs where he was always eaten alive by players like Odom or Gasol or Duncan. And his offense used to take a hit too. The guy has stretches where he puts up all star numbers during the season and then disappears for days together. That pattern still continues. Millsap admitted that he had another bad playoff outing recently vs the Spurs.

 

[zman1527]

I find that hard to believe



Popovich is a great coach. That doesnt mean Sloan is sub-par or lacks fudamentals of coaching. Only one or two teams in the NBA can afford to have someone like Popovich or Phil Jackson anyways.




Sloan had to deal with what he was given with. As for player development numersous scrubs have blossomed into decent role players under Sloan and have gone back to becoming scrubs when they left the Jazz. Memo and Booz both have credited Sloan a lot for them becoming all stars as did Millsap and numerous others. Again, you know all this and we have gone over this umpteen times, but just for old times sake, I guess one more time



He could do it in Chicago(albeit only partially) when he had other options on offense like Rose or Deng or Noah. If he did that while coaching in Utah the Jazz would not have made the playoffs leave alone reaching the WCF in 2007. You take the negatives with the positives as far as Booz is concerned. It is a tradeoff all the time. This is not the NFL where you sit down your best offensive players and switch to an all-defense team. Now there are players who could play both ends, but we didnt have a lot of them.




Disingenuity is when you fail to recognize that Carlisle's predecessors also didnt have the defensive players like Chandler and Jason Kidd(was old, but was still effective on defense 80% of the time) and Butler(even if he didnt play all games) and couple of other role players like Haywood who came off the bench and busted their butts on D. Carlisle did do a good job but it was not as if the team was
lacking on defensive players and it was Carlisle's genius that saw them through.I wont accept that BS.

Did Carlisle bench Nowitzki everytime he played medicore defense? Nope, he knew Nowitzki had a firm ceiling on defense much like Boozer. Nowitzki will never be all-NBA team defender. He is an average defender at best but was their best offensive player. So do you bench him, or do you take his offense and surround him with other guys who can protect the paint and perimeter better like a Chandler or Haywood or Butler or Kidd?
Looks like if you were the Suns coach you would have Nash firmly tied to the bench all the time for his defense.

Booz and Okur were guys who were limited on D as well as had to conserve their energy on D to do it on O. Thats just the players they were. You want to bench them for that, you had to bench them 70% of the time. The Jazz just didnt have an enforcer on defense. I thought even Deron got away lightly on this board for his efforts on pick and roll D a lot of times, thanks to Booz and Okur taking all the blame.The main Jazz guys were all not great defensive players.

And Millsap?Puhleeze.. Millsap was overmatched a lot of times and especially in the playoffs where he was always eaten alive by players like Odom or Gasol or Duncan. And his offense used to take a hit too. The guy has stretches where he puts up all star numbers during the season and then disappears for days together. That pattern still continues. Millsap admitted that he had another bad playoff outing recently vs the Spurs.

A problem with defending Sloan for the "players he had to work with" is that he was an important, likely the key, guy in determining who he had to work with. Remember when Sloan over-ruled KOC on D-Will versus CP? So the teams he had were the ones he wanted. His problem was "falling in love" with certain guys who had little talent but a lot of heart lets say, like a Milt Palacio.

Someone posted elsewhere a sloan quote of heart mattering more than size. Wrong: BOTH matter but Ol' Jer had a hard time seeing that.

Sloan had ample chances to earn a ring and could not get it done.

 

[freakazoid]

Sloan had to deal with what he was given with.

Yeah, it's too bad Jerry didn't have some kinda say in what players he had. Then everything coulda been different.

 

[vj_74]

A problem with defending Sloan for the "players he had to work with" is that he was an important, likely the key, guy in determining who he had to work with. Remember when Sloan over-ruled KOC on D-Will versus CP? .

That's an exception not the norm. It is funny how Sloan haters like you keep repeating that one rare instance where the Jazz had a chance to draft a top 3 pick and Sloan was more involved than usual on draft day as some kind of ultimate proof that Sloan was the one who scouted and decided which players were to play for the Jazz for the following years and also decided the free agent signings from his farm from Mcleansboro and maybe even called up GMs to make trades while KOC just signed on the papers. Funny stuff. Most of the putrid FA signings by KOC were his own doing and by the same token the good trades and FA pickups were also KOC's own doing. But then it is not uncommon on this board for some like you to bash Sloan for all the bad moves and give all credit to KOC for all the right moves.

And BTW,Al Jefferson was actually on Deron's wishlist as admitted by KOC, after Booz left.So the Jazz went out and got him.And boy, that really worked out for Deron