Joe Ingles should start over Bogie
- Thread starter mdalby
- Start date
I don't really care who starts but I do think Joe should be closing some games over Bogey, and I think they should each be playing around 28 minutes a game instead of Bogey 30 min. and Joe 26.
Dan Clayton released a good article today about the Jazz needing to use Joe more:
"Ask just about any pundit what the Jazz could use the most to bolster their chances at a deep playoff run, and they’ll mention wing defense before they draw their first breath or pause to think. What that means is that they think Utah needs one more big body who can deter an iso scorer or sap some efficiency from opponent pick-and-rolls. Ideally that player needs to be able to can open threes at a minimum, and if he can help organize the unit on nights when execution is lacking, that’s all the better.
In other words, the Jazz need more of what Joe Ingles does. It’s probably time to start talking about the Aussie forward’s role as Utah heads into the second half.
Players isolating against Joe have shot 1-for-10 this season, with zero shooting fouls drawn and two turnovers. The sample is tiny, but those numbers put Ingles in the 99th percentile as an iso defender. (He held players to 0.81 points per iso possession last year, also comfortably better average.) He’s also in the 65th percentile at corralling P&R ball handlers, and that’s where the lion’s share of his plays guarding a shot, turnover or shooting foul have come from (41%). Across all play types, opponents shoot 2.9 percentage points lower than their expected FG% when Ingles is the primary defender, per NBA tracking. He’s not a put-the-clamps on type of individual defender, but he moves his feet well enough and knows how to use the scheme to his advantage. In short: he’s still one of Utah’s better defensive options on the wing.
But he’s more than that. Ingles is one of the league’s best pick-and-roll creators by team points per P&R run, and also one of its most efficient scorers. Tony Snell — who plays roughly a quarter of Ingles’ minutes — is the only non-big with a higher point per shot number than Ingles. Obviously a lot of that has to do with his top-five percentage from 3-point territory (47%), but he’s also elite as a rim finisher (74%) and in floater range (57%). Quite frankly, Ingles is a bucket — except that we don’t think of him that way because he doesn’t force things as a low-usage player.
Not that he’s flawless. For one thing, you can go ahead and count two points anytime Ingles is the last man to beat on a fastbreak attempt in the paint, or even on some halfcourt 2-on-1s when Rudy Gobert is pulled away to help. He often doesn’t even contest in such situations, ostensibly because he’s calculated that his chance of altering the shot doesn’t justify the risk of compounding the breakdown by fouling.
But by and large, Ingles offers everything the Jazz are purportedly looking for as the trade deadline and buyout season draw near. He’s a plus defender, both in a general sense and in specific contexts that matter most for modern perimeter personnel. He’s an efficient scorer outside and in, an elite facilitator, and a smart dude who understands Utah’s read-and-react system as well as anybody. It’s no wonder he’s part of so many of Utah’s elite lineups.
And yet he’s seventh on the team in minutes played, eighth (among rotation guys) in usage. He disappears to the bench down the stretch of close games, just when Utah’s need for some mature and efficient offensive creation is the most acute, and when stopping opposing ball handlers is most urgent. Why?
Ingles should probably be more involved, but the problem is that the Jazz have a half dozen guys they trust to close, and the NBA frowns on playing six guys at once. Gobert and Donovan Mitchell are crunchtime locks. Mike Conley probably should be too, although there may times when matchups might dictate more length. Royce O’Neale is Utah’s designated on-ball defender down the stretch, and while Bojan Bogdanovic is catching some heat right now, he has won Utah a lot of games this season and last as a late-game bucket getter.
There are times when Ingles should probably finish a game over one of those latter three, as he did on Sunday when Bogdanovic again found himself struggling in Golden State. But whether he closes games or not, Ingles needs to be a lot more centrally involved for the Jazz whenever he does play.
Even when he’s on the court with hybrid bench units, the ball should be in his hands more than it currently is. Instead, the Jazz do a lot of freelancing in those minutes, settling for offense that leads to middling outcomes. For example, Jordan Clarkson is still using nearly 29% of Jazz possessions while he’s on the court1, despite the fact that there are more efficient options all around him. That’s not only almost double Ingles’ usage, it’s also significantly higher than Conley’s, Bogey’s or Gobert’s. That was fine during the first month of the season when JC was shooting lights-out, but the law of averages has tugged him right back to the mean (.577 true shooting, league average is .572) and the Jazz haven’t really adjusted yet.
That’s not meant to be a knock on Clarkson, who provides something unique and important to the second unit offense. But *some* of those possessions should be reallocated to a more reliably efficient creation engine. Organizing bench minutes around an elite pick-and-roll creator is a safer bet in the long run than continuing to have a mid-efficiency iso option take over nearly a third of the team’s plays in those minutes.
There’s a good chance the Jazz are trying to save the 33-year-old Ingles, keeping his minutes in the mid 20s and his usage in the teens so that he has juice left when the playoffs arrive. That’s a reasonable argument for not fully uncorking Ingles at this point of the season.
But before you frantically scan the waiver wire and construct trade machine fantasies to find Utah a big wing who shoots well, creates efficient offense, and can guard the ball in P&Rs and isos, it’s worth remembering that the Jazz have a player precisely matching that description who is not fully deployed at the moment.
Now or later, they’re going to need more Ingles."
https://saltcityhoops.com/salt-city-seven-ingles-involvement-playoff-picture-adding-ersan-more/
Dan Clayton released a good article today about the Jazz needing to use Joe more:
"Ask just about any pundit what the Jazz could use the most to bolster their chances at a deep playoff run, and they’ll mention wing defense before they draw their first breath or pause to think. What that means is that they think Utah needs one more big body who can deter an iso scorer or sap some efficiency from opponent pick-and-rolls. Ideally that player needs to be able to can open threes at a minimum, and if he can help organize the unit on nights when execution is lacking, that’s all the better.
In other words, the Jazz need more of what Joe Ingles does. It’s probably time to start talking about the Aussie forward’s role as Utah heads into the second half.
Players isolating against Joe have shot 1-for-10 this season, with zero shooting fouls drawn and two turnovers. The sample is tiny, but those numbers put Ingles in the 99th percentile as an iso defender. (He held players to 0.81 points per iso possession last year, also comfortably better average.) He’s also in the 65th percentile at corralling P&R ball handlers, and that’s where the lion’s share of his plays guarding a shot, turnover or shooting foul have come from (41%). Across all play types, opponents shoot 2.9 percentage points lower than their expected FG% when Ingles is the primary defender, per NBA tracking. He’s not a put-the-clamps on type of individual defender, but he moves his feet well enough and knows how to use the scheme to his advantage. In short: he’s still one of Utah’s better defensive options on the wing.
But he’s more than that. Ingles is one of the league’s best pick-and-roll creators by team points per P&R run, and also one of its most efficient scorers. Tony Snell — who plays roughly a quarter of Ingles’ minutes — is the only non-big with a higher point per shot number than Ingles. Obviously a lot of that has to do with his top-five percentage from 3-point territory (47%), but he’s also elite as a rim finisher (74%) and in floater range (57%). Quite frankly, Ingles is a bucket — except that we don’t think of him that way because he doesn’t force things as a low-usage player.
Not that he’s flawless. For one thing, you can go ahead and count two points anytime Ingles is the last man to beat on a fastbreak attempt in the paint, or even on some halfcourt 2-on-1s when Rudy Gobert is pulled away to help. He often doesn’t even contest in such situations, ostensibly because he’s calculated that his chance of altering the shot doesn’t justify the risk of compounding the breakdown by fouling.
But by and large, Ingles offers everything the Jazz are purportedly looking for as the trade deadline and buyout season draw near. He’s a plus defender, both in a general sense and in specific contexts that matter most for modern perimeter personnel. He’s an efficient scorer outside and in, an elite facilitator, and a smart dude who understands Utah’s read-and-react system as well as anybody. It’s no wonder he’s part of so many of Utah’s elite lineups.
And yet he’s seventh on the team in minutes played, eighth (among rotation guys) in usage. He disappears to the bench down the stretch of close games, just when Utah’s need for some mature and efficient offensive creation is the most acute, and when stopping opposing ball handlers is most urgent. Why?
Ingles should probably be more involved, but the problem is that the Jazz have a half dozen guys they trust to close, and the NBA frowns on playing six guys at once. Gobert and Donovan Mitchell are crunchtime locks. Mike Conley probably should be too, although there may times when matchups might dictate more length. Royce O’Neale is Utah’s designated on-ball defender down the stretch, and while Bojan Bogdanovic is catching some heat right now, he has won Utah a lot of games this season and last as a late-game bucket getter.
There are times when Ingles should probably finish a game over one of those latter three, as he did on Sunday when Bogdanovic again found himself struggling in Golden State. But whether he closes games or not, Ingles needs to be a lot more centrally involved for the Jazz whenever he does play.
Even when he’s on the court with hybrid bench units, the ball should be in his hands more than it currently is. Instead, the Jazz do a lot of freelancing in those minutes, settling for offense that leads to middling outcomes. For example, Jordan Clarkson is still using nearly 29% of Jazz possessions while he’s on the court1, despite the fact that there are more efficient options all around him. That’s not only almost double Ingles’ usage, it’s also significantly higher than Conley’s, Bogey’s or Gobert’s. That was fine during the first month of the season when JC was shooting lights-out, but the law of averages has tugged him right back to the mean (.577 true shooting, league average is .572) and the Jazz haven’t really adjusted yet.
That’s not meant to be a knock on Clarkson, who provides something unique and important to the second unit offense. But *some* of those possessions should be reallocated to a more reliably efficient creation engine. Organizing bench minutes around an elite pick-and-roll creator is a safer bet in the long run than continuing to have a mid-efficiency iso option take over nearly a third of the team’s plays in those minutes.
There’s a good chance the Jazz are trying to save the 33-year-old Ingles, keeping his minutes in the mid 20s and his usage in the teens so that he has juice left when the playoffs arrive. That’s a reasonable argument for not fully uncorking Ingles at this point of the season.
But before you frantically scan the waiver wire and construct trade machine fantasies to find Utah a big wing who shoots well, creates efficient offense, and can guard the ball in P&Rs and isos, it’s worth remembering that the Jazz have a player precisely matching that description who is not fully deployed at the moment.
Now or later, they’re going to need more Ingles."
https://saltcityhoops.com/salt-city-seven-ingles-involvement-playoff-picture-adding-ersan-more/
Agree. Doesn't have to start but need to close games over Bogey.
Minutes though lower them both and give Oni some more burn. Esp Joe and preserve him for playoffs.