That's right.
John Kelly
- Thread starter str8line
- Start date
That's right.
So... this post pertains to the dangers of stoking such flames and the end game of promoting discord. Is Kelly pledging his allegiance to Trump? What kind of ****ed up **** is going on? I'm not looking for an opinion on semantics of history.
But go ahead and argue semantics too if you want.
But go ahead and argue semantics too if you want.
I think assuming this is Kelly pledging his allegiance to Trump to be naïve. I think Kelly's military history of service affords him more consideration than that.
To me personally I see zero danger. Because I can look at it and think. To me the danger lies in those one both sides that rush to judgment and attack or defend mode instead of sitting down, thinking things through and discussing things. Unfortunately I am seeing/hearing more and more in the camp of not thinking. In the grand scheme of the current political and social climate I find little danger in this.
Not thinking?!
Are you aware of the person we have in the White House? Are you not concerned about who he surrounds himself with? Can you not see how ****ed up this situation is? Have you seen Kelly getting involved in defending Trump?
I think Kelly should probably just keep his mouth shut regarding anything relating to the Confederacy. It can't do any good.
This is certainly just one more tick mark in the column of the Trump administration being the most racist in the last 40-50 years. While it isn't a direct indication of racism, it's just something that certainly doesn't disqualify them from being racist and appealing to racists. If the Trump administration says or does anything that could be even remotely associated with racial issues they should be making clear that they don't support any form of racism, but instead they just continue to give a wink and a nod to our country's racists.
I think that this new wave of regressive nationalist poop is very troubling. However, it's not just Trump and his cronies. Nationalism seems on the rise worldwide. Anti-establishment rhetoric is at an all time high (because they're globalists and thus not racist enough). Tens of millions of Americans sympathize with those sentiments, and I do agree that those of us who disagree shouldn't remain silent.
I also believe that the Bannoninst ideology is not feasible in the modern world, and that it will eventually fail. The modern West was simply created by the neoliberals, and it exerts an inherent neoliberal ideological pressure on all of its inhabitants. I am worried, but I'm not that worried.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Well we’ve got Sarah Huckabee Sanders repeating that line today, so the danger is that we have a Whitehouse that is perfectly happy to continue what I’ll call “soft” white supremacy talking points and alternative history. There was plenty of compromise leading up the the civil war, Lincoln’s presidency was itself based on compromise, he didn’t want to end slavery simply limit its expansion.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
You made historical characterizations first, dood.
As far as the current state of affairs I don't think it could get much worse but then again that's what I thought during the W.Bush years. Hoping for an obstructionist Dem majority in 2018. Change that actually happens in 2020.
John McCain's got you.
Two questions for you alt:
1. Was slavery the primary reason for the Civil War? Yes or no?
2. Did Lee lead the fight for the side for slavery? Yes or no?
What historical "characterization" did I make?
We need more obstructionist Republicans. I don't understand why they continue to placate the Trumpists, when their entire platform is built around what the idea that the establishment has ****ed us over. Well, they haven't. I think we're living at the peak of human civilization (thus far). They should give the nationalists the middle finger and continue to govern rationally and inclusively.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Yes, praise him. From yesterday:
“It’s time to wake up,” McCain told midshipmen at the Naval Academy on Monday night, per the Capital Gazette. “I believe in America. We’re capable of better. I’ve seen it. We’re hopeful, compassionate people.”
McCain then lamented the loss of “compromise and principled cooperation.”
“We are asleep to the necessity of our leadership, and to the opportunities and real dangers of this world,” he said, according to The Hill. “We are asleep in our echo chambers, where our views are always affirmed and information that contradicts them is always fake.”
The six-term senator didn’t mention the president by name, but he addressed both Trump’s policies and rhetoric:
“We have to fight against propaganda and crackpot conspiracy theories. We have to fight isolationism, protectionism and nativism. We have to defeat those who would worsen our divisions. We have to remind our sons and daughters that we became the most powerful nation on earth by tearing down walls, not building them.”
From Huffpost.
LogGrad98
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The problem isn't other republican leaders, it is a mixed, divided and in the end neurotic voter base they are trying to appease. And with the current upheaval that is like stabbing a marble. So you get **** that is all over the place and their reactions are chaotic, because instead of the normal party-line to tow, they have to figure out what will keep them in office and it is now very muddy water they are dealing with.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
In reverse order
You made a characterization of Robert E. Lee that was IMV inaccurate.
2. Yes he did. If my understanding of history is correct it was a difficult decision for him(he had also been requested by Lincoln to serve for the USA). Ultimately he made his decision to lead the Confederate army largely out of a sense of duty to his state, but also he did think that the institution of slavery was justifiable.
1. That's a loaded question. First the number of people in the north that wanted to see an immediate end to slavery and that saw it as a moral imperitive the way we do were in the extreme minority. Many dispised slavery for the same reason many people today don't like immigrants, they didn't want to compete with cheap labor. Most northerners wanted a more progressive, as opposed to revolutionary, end to slavery. They wanted to see a phasing out with a decades long repatriation of blacks to Africa. This wasn't a righteous cause.
Even Lincoln himself didn't really become an abolitionist until almost the end of the war. IIRC at the outset of the war he would have been willing to compromise on slavery to preserve the union. Having won the presidency without taking a single southern state though the south could see the writing on the wall. There was the political power aspect of the western territories. The south hadn't political power in any real way and it was bound to get worse. Yes it was about slavery but more often than not it was more about how slavery intersected with the interests of people rather than their moral outrage.
in my humble opinion
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Yeah
Lmao, John Mcain can eat all the dicks. Dude is trash. Stop falling for these republicans acting like they ain't ****ing with Trump, they are, they just don't want anyone to know it because of how disastrous he is with PR.
Dude would go to war with every country in the world if he had the choice. Trump Twitter feud with NK probably got him rock hard.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/john-mccain/
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