Kanter and Burke have got to go

[GVC]

This is you finding some stat that means little to nothing to prove your case.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not meaningful.

You're engaging on very few of my arguments, and offering very little beyond simple context-free boxscore stats. If you're not going to approach this discussion in good faith, I won't continue.

****ing fanboys...

 

[da ThRONe]

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's not meaningful.

You're engaging on very few of my arguments, and offering very little beyond simple context-free boxscore stats. If you're not going to approach this discussion in good faith, I won't continue.

****ing fanboys...

So your stat covering pull ups off the dribble and drives means that Hayward was the better ball handler, but my stats that shows Burke had more APG and less TPG with a lesser(although slightly) usage rate is to be completety ignored. And I'm the fan boy got'ca.

 

[GVC]

And I'm the fan boy got'ca.

Precisely.

 

[Tony]

You're both fanboys.

 

[da ThRONe]

I disagree about the effects of coaching. For example it made no sense to play Burke off the ball and allow Hayward to be the primary ball handler. That took two guys strength and turned them into weakness. Hayward is better off ball as a spot up shooter, slasher, and secondary play maker and Burke is better as the primary ball handler. This was just one example of a simple bad coaching decision that lead to bad seasons for both players as they were forced into roles that didn't suit the either.

Here's my original post it says nothing about driving or pull up jumpers. If anything it farther makes my point that Hayward is better as the secondary ball handler. Because he's better at driving that makes him a better secondary option. I've said this before because Burke isn't great like Teague, Westbrook, Wall, Rose or Lawson at driving to the rim getting him the ball late(which is usually waht happens when a player is the secondary ball handler) limits how affective he's going to be in that possession. Since Hayward is better at attacking to the basket if the original play breaks down when the ball finds him he's not as limited as Burke's was last year. Burke takes care of the ball (low turnover rate) and better vision(higher assist per game) makes him the better primary ball handler in the half court set.

Which takes me back to my original point. That coach Corbin offense didn't play to the strengths of his players .If used properly based on that skill set you would expect their stats to be higher. I'm saying the added role as primary ball handler hurt Hayward in the skill set he already showed he was strong at and making Burke more of the secondary ball handler hurt his number in an area he showed he was strong in (albeit mostly in college, but he showed plenty flashes even in his rookie season).

So just because Burke and Hayward have a similar number of drives, pull-up jumpers, and/or spot ups doesn't mean Trey or Gordon was the primary ball handler on those play. Which is what my whole point to begin with. Therefore those stats as it pertains to my comments are irrelevant if they aren't telling me who the primary ball handler was each play.

 

[GVC]

"Drives" include (many) pick and rolls in the player tracking data FWIW. I guess I'm not understanding what you're definition of "primary ball handler" is. You'll have to give a precise definition of that term.

Next, given your definition of "primary ball handler", why are you convinced that Gordo was fulfilling this role more than Trey? Do you have any evidence to support this?

 

[franklin]

"According to NBA.com's SportVU data, the Utah standout touched the ball in the frontcourt 61 times per game, ranking him No. 31 in the Association. LeBron James was the only non-guard above him on the leaderboard, and no other forwards were in the top 40. Not even Kevin Durant (No. 41) or Paul George (43)"

I think Hayward was used a little too much...

How did you ever become so insightful?

 

[da ThRONe]

"Drives" include (many) pick and rolls in the player tracking data FWIW. I guess I'm not understanding what you're definition of "primary ball handler" is. You'll have to give a precise definition of that term.

Next, given your definition of "primary ball handler", why are you convinced that Gordo was fulfilling this role more than Trey? Do you have any evidence to support this?

The problem with counting drives are they are only logged if the result of the drives ends in an assist, shot attempt, or turnover. That's leaves a ton of plays that a player may probe the defense or have the ball in their hands that doesn't get counted because it just resulted in something that isn't counted.

A primary ball handlers is the player that has the ball the majority of the time in the half court.