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Kanter is not ready to start

jazzfan1971

jazzfan1971

Well-Known Member
BS.

I've never heard such a load of crap in my whole life. You can say that he isn't the best option to start on the Jazz. That's a reasonable argument. But, he's certainly ready to start.

Greg Ostertag started 70 games his second year. Gave us 7, 7, and 2.
Jarron Collins started his 1st year 68 games. Gave us 6 and 4.
Mark Eaton started 78 games his 2nd year. 5.5, 5.5, and 4.3!
Felton Spencer started 54 games his 2nd year. 6, 7, 1.3

Per 36 Kanter gave the Jazz 12, 11, 1 his rookie season. A notable season in that there was no training camp.

My point being, Kanter is more ready to start than a lot of the guys we've started at center in the past. He may not be ready to unseat Jefferson, but, he's certainly ready to start. More than ready actually. He'd be just fine. Better than a lot of the starting centers we've trotted out there.


So, enough of the not ready to start BS. It's just not gonna fly with me, I've seen too much basketball to buy into that nonsense.
 
You've got it all wrong.

Does Kanter's last name have an inclination of a new type of 'Tag' game like Ostertag's name does?
Can Kanter take a charge like Jarron Collins and single handedly change the outcome of 2% of the game?

I think not.
 
you think Kanter is ready to start at center on the Jazz, but not good enough yet to unseat Jefferson? This does not make sense. I understand what you're trying to say, but until Kanter is the best option he his not ready to start.
 
OP is responding to people saying we can't trade Al because Kanter is not ready.


Jazzfan
I do think that Kanter could probably surpass the 4 listed in the OP in points and rebounds if he was allowed to start, and managed to avoid fouls and turnovers long enough to stay on the floor 25 minutes.

Ostertag and Eaton were excellent shot blockers, so had a big impact not reflected in your stats. There is more to performance than points and rebounds.

It would be interesting, and might be worth considering from a long term perspective..
 
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jazzfan1971 said:
Greg Ostertag started 70 games his second year. Gave us 7, 7, and 2.
Jarron Collins started his 1st year 68 games. Gave us 6 and 4.
Mark Eaton started 78 games his 2nd year. 5.5, 5.5, and 4.3!
Felton Spencer started 54 games his 2nd year. 6, 7, 1.3
Click to expand...

This makes sense, since Kanter is currently battling for the starting spot with those four guys, right?

Geez, this is like the argument that Steve Nash shouldn't have won those MVPs because he wasn't as good as prime Jordan, Bird, or Magic. I suppose all MVPs awards ever should retroactively be given to the 1997 Michael Jordan and Enes Kanter should retroactively start on every Jazz team between about 1991 and 2005.
 
northeast said:
OP is responding to people saying we can't trade Al because Kanter is not ready.


Jazzfan
I do think that Kanter could probably surpass the 4 listed in the OP in points and rebounds if he was allowed to start, and managed to avoid fouls and turnovers long enough to stay on the floor 25 minutes.

Ostertag and Eaton were excellent shot blockers, so had a big impact not reflected in your stats. There is more to performance than points and rebounds.

It would be interesting, and might be worth considering from a long term perspective..
Click to expand...

I'm glad someone gets what I was saying.
 
jazzfan1971 said:
BS.

I've never heard such a load of crap in my whole life. You can say that he isn't the best option to start on the Jazz. That's a reasonable argument. But, he's certainly ready to start.

Greg Ostertag started 70 games his second year. Gave us 7, 7, and 2.
Jarron Collins started his 1st year 68 games. Gave us 6 and 4.
Mark Eaton started 78 games his 2nd year. 5.5, 5.5, and 4.3!
Felton Spencer started 54 games his 2nd year. 6, 7, 1.3

Per 36 Kanter gave the Jazz 12, 11, 1 his rookie season. A notable season in that there was no training camp.

My point being, Kanter is more ready to start than a lot of the guys we've started at center in the past. He may not be ready to unseat Jefferson, but, he's certainly ready to start. More than ready actually. He'd be just fine. Better than a lot of the starting centers we've trotted out there.
Click to expand...

Let's have some perspective. In 1996-97, who was Ostertag compteting against to be a starter? An over-the-hill Antoine Carr and Greg Foster. In 2001-02, bigs besides Jarron Collins included John Amaechi an already-declining Greg Ostertag. In 1983-84, other bigs besides Mare Eaton were Thurl Bailey playing mainly at PF, Tom Boswell, Rich Kelley, and Jeff Wilkins. Kelley and Wilkins were decent, but Eaton was already an elite shot-blocker and led the league in blocks. Is Kanter elite at anything yet? Felton Spencer wasn't even on the Jazz his second year, so I don't know why he's even on your list. Kanter is battling Favors and Big Al for playing time. The point is that using starting centers from past years to say that Kanter is ready to start now doesn't make sense.

EDIT: Essentially this a long way of agreeing with JimLes.
 
jazzfan1971 said:
Greg Ostertag started 70 games his second year. Gave us 7, 7, and 2.
Jarron Collins started his 1st year 68 games. Gave us 6 and 4.
Mark Eaton started 78 games his 2nd year. 5.5, 5.5, and 4.3!
Felton Spencer started 54 games his 2nd year. 6, 7, 1.3
Click to expand...

AND played next to the greatest actual PF of all time. AND they had no competition. But why should either of those things have any bearing on whether or not a guy that isn't ready to start by almost all accounts (including Kanter supporters such as myself) should start?

The question is if the Jazz have two other starters to make up for ****ty Al, and they do: Millsap and Favors.
 
I didn't make it clear, but, I responding to folks that say we can't trade Jefferson because Kanter isnt' ready to start. I tried to show that he was just as ready as several other folks we started at center to indicate that he was indeed ready to be a starter.
 
jazzfan1971 said:
I didn't make it clear, but, I responding to folks that say we can't trade Jefferson because Kanter isnt' ready to start. I tried to show that he was just as ready as several other folks we started at center to indicate that he was indeed ready to be a starter.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's stupid to say we can't trade Jefferson because Kanter isn't ready. We can't trade Jefferson because he's the 8th most efficient player in the league and Kanter is a bust who sucks on offense and gets lost on defense.
 
jazzfan1971 said:
BS.

I've never heard such a load of crap in my whole life. You can say that he isn't the best option to start on the Jazz. That's a reasonable argument. But, he's certainly ready to start.

Greg Ostertag started 70 games his second year. Gave us 7, 7, and 2.
Jarron Collins started his 1st year 68 games. Gave us 6 and 4.
Mark Eaton started 78 games his 2nd year. 5.5, 5.5, and 4.3!
Felton Spencer started 54 games his 2nd year. 6, 7, 1.3

Per 36 Kanter gave the Jazz 12, 11, 1 his rookie season. A notable season in that there was no training camp.

My point being, Kanter is more ready to start than a lot of the guys we've started at center in the past. He may not be ready to unseat Jefferson, but, he's certainly ready to start. More than ready actually. He'd be just fine. Better than a lot of the starting centers we've trotted out there.


So, enough of the not ready to start BS. It's just not gonna fly with me, I've seen too much basketball to buy into that nonsense.
Click to expand...

Comparing him to those historical performances doesn't mean anything. All it says is that those guys were awful (save Mark Eaton. If Kanter averages 4.3 blocks per game, I'll eat my shorts).
 
jazzfan1971 said:
BS.

I've never heard such a load of crap in my whole life. You can say that he isn't the best option to start on the Jazz. That's a reasonable argument. But, he's certainly ready to start.

Greg Ostertag started 70 games his second year. Gave us 7, 7, and 2.
Jarron Collins started his 1st year 68 games. Gave us 6 and 4.
Mark Eaton started 78 games his 2nd year. 5.5, 5.5, and 4.3!
Felton Spencer started 54 games his 2nd year. 6, 7, 1.3

Per 36 Kanter gave the Jazz 12, 11, 1 his rookie season. A notable season in that there was no training camp.

My point being, Kanter is more ready to start than a lot of the guys we've started at center in the past. He may not be ready to unseat Jefferson, but, he's certainly ready to start. More than ready actually. He'd be just fine. Better than a lot of the starting centers we've trotted out there.


So, enough of the not ready to start BS. It's just not gonna fly with me, I've seen too much basketball to buy into that nonsense.
Click to expand...
Collins and Spencer shouldn't even be part of the conversation. That the Jazz HAD to start those guys speaks to the weakness of those teams at the 5, not to the worthiness of them being starters.

Ostertag and Eaton were outstanding defenders and gave the Jazz shot-blocking. You also can't translate Kanter's stats against fellow backups as to what he would produce as a starter. By that method, had Fes started, he would have been an all-star.

What it comes down to is does Kanter starting make the team better? Does trading Jefferson make the team better? Right now, that answer is no. And frankly, with the holes in Kanter's game, I don't see any trade scenario at this time that would result in Kanter starting and make the team better. Teams would love to see us start Favors/Kanter. That's two guys who have very limited offensive games.

IMO, Kanter needs to be able to dominate rookies and NBA subs before he's thrown into the starting lineup. He struggled in the Farkin Summer League for HeavenHarris' sake! He can board, I'll give him that. But with only one reliable offensive move, he'll get eaten alive by NBA-quality 5's, just like he was getting his lunch handed to him on the offensive end by rookies in the OSL.

Look at Millsap. He was a beast off the bench, but he's struggled at times as a starter. It took Paul a few years as a understudy, working his butt off to improve, before he could become a consistent starter.
 
Kanter can start, but he shouldn't start. He'd do okay as a starter, but he's still best suited for the bench.

Its incredible how little basketball experience Kanter really has. He'll hopefully be ready to start by 2013/14.
 
he needs one more year to be a good starter.

right now, he is an elite level rebounder and decent defender. he has a ton of potential but his flaws offensively can't be overseen. he is still very raw and should become a better passer.

once he learns the speed of the game and gets more used to the nba level, there is no reason why he can't become one of the top centers in the nba within two years time.

right now, he is an average player at the center position with the chance to become one of the best (if you consider how bad and thin this position is). it's better for him to come off the bench for one more year and get his 20 mpg and start next season. he needs more experience and should not immediately get a role which is too big for him to manage.
 
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