Fishsticks
Banned
easy to look back and say why didn't we pick him up, but.....why didn't we pick him up? We needed a PG at that time.
Kendall Marshall upset the Jazz didn't call him.
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Horrible comparison. Arroyo was much like Trey Burke, shoot first, shoot second, pass third.
Meanwhile, Marshall is more of a traditional PG. His assist total is impressive. Stop hating. His ability to run a team completely devoid of fire power is extremely notable.
Personally, I'd rather have Marshall. We have plenty of chuckers on this team. We need guys who can get others involved. Favors, in particular, would benefit greatly from having a pass first PG.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
With Arroyo, you forgot the 15 second exagerrated dribbling, hoping all his amigos and the chiquitas would be impressed by his machismo.
DutchJazzer
Banned
IN D'ANTONIS OFFENSE THE pg GETS TO RUN THE OFFENSE.
IN CORBINS CRAPFENSE. NOTHING IS HAPPENING.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
^True dat. Do the Jazz even have an offense to run?
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
The Jazz have an offense... a very offensive one. It's bits and pieces of Sloan's offense, but with personal who it doesn't fit, and then a lot of late shot clock chucking, or any time in the shot clock Trey Burke chucking, mixed with Gordon Hayward trying to be an iso player out of timeouts. (< not a diss on Hayward. I love his game when used correctly. I'm one of the few who believes he is a #2 guy, but we'll need a #1 to prove that).
My point with OP is that any offense will benefit from a PG not trying to be the #1 guy if he isn't the #1 guy.
Precisely. 0 downside, 0 excuses.
I don't know what the 0 excuses hard on is all about. There were Phoenix sports writers last season who thought Diante Garrett was more promising than Kendall Marshall. DL obviously saw the same, then KM broke out a little.
DutchJazzer
Banned
ooh really?
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I remember when he was drafted a lot of jazz fans were upset. Many here felt he was going to be a good PG and wanted him here. It's kind of funny to see the flip flopping now. "Oh well, uhhh Garrett is the better prospect." Um no.
Marshall is a legit NBA pg.
We screwed up by not signing him. Perhaps DL knew that signing him would essentially negate his latest draft. Because folks, Marshall is the superior PG. Comparing Burke and Marshall is the difference between night and day. Burke chucks. Marshall runs an offense and gets the ball where it needs to go. Like Steve Francis, Burke will always be the sexier pick. However, Marshall Stockton just gets the job done.
Sorry folks, but I'm not impressed at all with Burke's inability to distribute the ball and run our offense. It's sad that our best PG is Alec Burks.
Marshall? His ability to run a team is incredible. Yes, he has a system that favors his style of play. But how he can get double digit assists with his best player being Kaman is insane. Think Burke could do that? Hell, Burke can't do it despite playing with a superior supporting fast.
Imagine what Marshall could do alongside Favors, Kanter, and Hayward?
Yeah, we fed up (again).
Marshall is a legit NBA pg.
We screwed up by not signing him. Perhaps DL knew that signing him would essentially negate his latest draft. Because folks, Marshall is the superior PG. Comparing Burke and Marshall is the difference between night and day. Burke chucks. Marshall runs an offense and gets the ball where it needs to go. Like Steve Francis, Burke will always be the sexier pick. However, Marshall Stockton just gets the job done.
Sorry folks, but I'm not impressed at all with Burke's inability to distribute the ball and run our offense. It's sad that our best PG is Alec Burks.
Marshall? His ability to run a team is incredible. Yes, he has a system that favors his style of play. But how he can get double digit assists with his best player being Kaman is insane. Think Burke could do that? Hell, Burke can't do it despite playing with a superior supporting fast.
Imagine what Marshall could do alongside Favors, Kanter, and Hayward?
Yeah, we fed up (again).
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Broke out a little? Look, the Jazz had 0 answers at the position, they could've grabbed both players with no one questioning the decision.
Again, 0 downside, 0 excuses.
DutchJazzer
Banned
still think its a system thing.
cant judge before we put kendall in crobainse crapfanse.
and burke in d'antoni's SUPERFENSE
cant judge before we put kendall in crobainse crapfanse.
and burke in d'antoni's SUPERFENSE
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fishonjazz
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He has a point
Devin harris showed up and was worse than expected
Mo was way worse than expected
Trey was quite good until he got more ingrained in corbins offense and now he is going downhill
Marshall probably wouldnt look so good on this team with corbin coaching.
Still worth picking up cause like numb said..... we had nothing else and nothing to lose
JoelHodgeJr
Well-Known Member
Burke has the second highest ast avg of all rookies. I agree he's shooting to much but to say he's not passing well is asinine.
Sent from the JazzFanz app
Sent from the JazzFanz app
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
who said he isn't passing well? A lot of us said he isn't passing enough in relation to his FGA's. He is 2nd on the team in FGA's, but last in FG% out of all the players with defined roles/rotation minutes.
He has great playmaking skills, and a bad jumper/driving skills. He thinks he's our #1 option, which is bad for him and the development of the rest of the team.
DutchJazzer
Banned
]
also note that players looked better without jefferson.
and seem like pplayers look better without hayward on the floor.
seems like crobain crappfense is centered around who he considers the ebst player.
that player seem to ebcome a ballhog.
whiile 4 other players just ebcome spot up shooters.
eg marvin was last year 5th option behind jefferson mo foye/hayward and millsap.
this year he is the first option on spot up shots.
so yeah crobains crapfense is a major factor in this.
trey got ingrained in it.
hayward dominates the ball. which takes away from burke.
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
I'm finally on a computer and not a phone, so I can type this all out.
I'm not certain, but I'm fairly positive but you're just looking at Marshall's numbers and not watching him play for LA. I realize he's putting up pretty efficient numbers, but it's a mirage. He isn't that good. However he actually is better than I thought he would be, I think he can be a fairly dependable backup PG for the right team, but on a serious contender....no. Let me list my reasons.
1) Defense. He sucks at it. One of the worst defensive PG's I've ever seen. Slow laterally, doesn't have good defensive instincts, doesn't use his size effectively and can't even stop Derek Freaking Fisher. While he puts up some nice offensive numbers, he allows the opposing PG to blow by him and get to the rim, shoot a mid-range jumper or pass to the big guy who is left open due to his man helping out. Teams do not win that way. He can get away with it because the Lakers suck, but not on a good team.
2) Offense. He's putting up surprisingly good shooting numbers, but he is not a good shooter. He's getting left open, and he's making them (which is an aberration). How do I know this is an aberration? Well...his form sucks, indicating that he will never be a consistent shooter, and he sucks from the FT line. I can accept that big men are poor FT shooters, however any player who is shooting 45% from the field and 3 yet shoot 64% from the FT line is getting lucky. Now there is something to be said about a player who knows his limitations and doesn't shoot when he isn't open, and Marshall is quite good at that, but acting like he's a good shooter is foolish. He is a great passer though. I've always given him credit for that, but it doesn't make up for everything else. Another thing we need to realize is that while the Lakers suck, they do have quite a few good shooters on that team, and that helps him out...and lets not act like Kaman sucks. He's injury prone, but dude has skills.
3) Coaching. D'Antoni has perhaps the most innovative system for a PG in the league. No coach helps out his PG like D'Antoni does. For example, when he coached the Knicks, Jeremy Lin averaged something like 19/8 as a starter...he clearly hasn't touched those numbers since then. But here's the most important part of why I put this down...when Nash and Blake came back from their injuries, Marshall got put back on the bench, even though he was averaging damn near a double-double as a starter, which were better numbers than what Nash or Blake was doing. He's only starting again because Nash got hurt...again. Even more interesting is that once Blake got back, he started off with a triple-double. Steve Blake is 33 years old and sucks...and he's averaging ~ 10 and 8 with the Lakers. This is coaching and scheme.
Now I generally dislike using PER as an analysis for a players worth, but when you're using it with other metrics, it's fine. We have a large enough sample data to evaluate Marshall using PER, and it says that he's basically average to slightly below average. Pretty stunning for a guy who's averaging around 10 APG with good shooting numbers. That speaks to how porous his defense is (did I mention that Derek Fisher was able to get past him...Derek Fisher guys). Now I'm not a huge Trey Burke fan, but he's leaps and bounds better than Marshall. Marshall has a ****ty attitude and has since college, he's not a leader, Burke is. If Burke played for D'Antoni he would easily be the ROY. Easily.
Now I realize that the Lakers are worse than us, but it's not really by that much. They have some talented players on that team, and a halfway decent coach. We have more talented players, but a crappy coach. Trey Burke has an 18-22 record with the Utah Jazz, Marshall has a 5-20 record. It's not a coincidence.
I end with this...anybody who thinks that Marshall is a legit starting PG and better than Trey Burke is going purely off of numbers and not the eye test. Watch him play...he's not that good. Burke isn't exactly great (or good) right now, but he is a better player than Kendall Marshall.
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