What's new
By:

Kobe Bryant vs. Alec Burks, Rookie Season Stats Comparison

i don't care that much about this argument... i don't think alec is the next kobe and i was simply trying to defend the OP (which wasn't mine, btw) and show that burks' rookie play isn't all that pedestrian.

here, then, is joe b's list if we impose a minimum of minutes. i went with the standard 500 minute minimu, and it weeds out a good third of your list.

Joe Bagadonuts said:
Here are the rookies who have scored more than 0.4 points per minute in the last 5 years with Kobe added in and both Kobe and Alec highlighted:
Player Points/Minute
* Kyrie Irving ,*CLE 0.606557377 - 1556 minutes
* Blake Griffin ,*LAC 0.593667546 - 3116 minutes
* Kevin Durant ,*SEA 0.586705202 - 2768 minutes
* Rodrigue Beaubois ,*DAL 0.568 - 700 minutes
* Marcus Thornton ,*NOH 0.56640625 - 1869 minutes
* Michael Beasley ,*MIA 0.560483871 - 2171 minutes
* Tyreke Evans ,*SAC 0.540322581 - 2678 minutes
* Klay Thompson ,*GSW 0.512295082 - 1610 minutes
* DeMarcus Cousins ,*SAC 0.494736842 - 2309 minutes
* Roy Hibbert ,*IND 0.493055556 - 1008 minutes
KOBE BRYANT 0.490322581
* Nick Young ,*WAS 0.487012987 - 1158 minutes
* O.J. Mayo ,*MEM 0.485564304 - 3116 minutes
* Stephen Curry ,*GSW 0.483425414 - 2896 minutes
* Tyler Hansbrough ,*IND 0.482954545 - 510 minutes
* Marreese Speights ,*PHI 0.48125 - 1264 minutes
* Jordan Crawford ,*WAS-ATL 0.479508197 - 1029 minutes
* Carl Landry ,*HOU 0.479289941 - 711 minutes
* Brandon Jennings ,*MIL 0.475460123 - 2673 minutes
* A.J. Price ,*IND 0.470967742 - 862 minutes
* Russell Westbrook ,*OKC 0.470769231 - 2665 minutes
* Eric Gordon ,*LAC 0.469387755 - 2675 minutes
* Jonny Flynn ,*MIN 0.467128028 -2341 minutes
* Reggie Williams ,*GSW 0.466257669 - 782 minutes
* Al Thornton ,*LAC 0.465201465 - 2158 minutes
* Gary Neal ,*SAS 0.464454976 - 1688 minutes
* Derrick Rose ,*CHI 0.454054054 - 2997 minutes
* Alec Burks ,*UTA 0.452830189 - 938 minutes
* Kenneth Faried ,*DEN 0.451327434 - 1038 minutes
* Isaiah Thomas ,*SAC 0.450980392 - 1658 minutes
* Sam Young ,*MEM 0.448484848 - 1320 minutes
* Anthony Morrow ,*GSW 0.446902655 - 1514 minutes
* Darren Collison ,*NOH 0.446043165 - 2113 minutes
* D.J. Augustin ,*CHA 0.445283019 - 1908 minutes
* Kemba Walker ,*CHA 0.444852941 - 1795 minutes
* Toney Douglas ,*NYK 0.443298969 - 1086 minutes
* Chase Budinger ,*HOU 0.44278607 - 1487 minutes
* Anthony Randolph ,*GSW 0.441340782 - 1128 minutes
* Kevin Love ,*MIN 0.438735178 - 2049 minutes
* Aaron Brooks ,*HOU 0.43697479 - 607 minutes
* John Wall ,*WAS 0.433862434 - 2608 minutes
* James Harden ,*OKC 0.43231441 - 1740 minutes
* Aaron Gray ,*CHI 0.43 - 610 minutes
* MarShon Brooks ,*NJN 0.428571429 - 1646 minutes
* DeJuan Blair ,*SAS 0.428571429 -1492 minutes
* JaVale McGee ,*WAS 0.427631579 - 1140 minutes
* Brook Lopez ,*NJN 0.426229508 - 2501 minutes
* Luis Scola ,*HOU 0.417004049 - 2025 minutes
* Greg Oden ,*POR 0.413953488 - 1312 minutes
* Gary Forbes ,*DEN 0.412698413 - 794 minutes
* Javaris Crittenton ,*MEM-LAL 0.411764706 - 680 minutes
* David Andersen ,*HOU 0.411347518 - 888 minutes
* Samardo Samuels ,*CLE 0.410526316 - 699 minutes
* Omri Casspi ,*SAC 0.410358566 - 1933 minutes
* Derrick Williams ,*MIN 0.409302326 - 1419 minutes
* Ty Lawson ,*DEN 0.408866995 - 1313 minutes
* Jimmer Fredette ,*SAC 0.408602151 - 1135 minutes
* Rudy Fernandez ,*POR 0.40625 - 1997 minutes
* Nikola Pekovic ,*MIN 0.401459854 -884 minutes
* Rodney Stuckey ,*DET 0.4 - 1083 minutes

* Ian Mahinmi ,*SAS 0.921052632 - 23 minutes
* Patrick Mills ,*POR 0.684210526 - 38 minutes
* Elliot Williams ,*POR 0.596774194 - 149 minutes
* Devin Ebanks ,*LAL 0.525423729 - 118 minutes
* Othyus Jeffers ,*UTA 0.5 - 73 minutes
* Sundiata Gaines ,*UTA 0.485294118 - 218 minutes
* DJ White ,*OKC 0.481081081 - 130 minutes
* Thomas Gardner ,*CHI 0.473214286 - 45 minutes
* Alando Tucker ,*PHX 0.4625 - 48 minutes
* Alonzo Gee ,*WAS 0.448484848 - 182 minutes
* Jordan Hamilton ,*DEN 0.444444444 - 257 minutes
* Marcin Gortat ,*ORL 0.441176471 - 41 minutes
* Tobias Harris ,*MIL 0.438596491 - 479 minutes
* Josh McRoberts, POR 0.429 - 28 minutes
* Coby Karl ,*LAL 0.428571429 - 71 minutes
* Juan Carlos Navarro ,*MEM 0.42248062 - 2117 minutes, but i excluded him anyway because this was 6 years ago, not in the last five like you said
* Andrew Goudelock ,*LAL 0.419047619 - 420 minutes
* Jermaine Taylor ,*HOU 0.418367347 - 304 minutes
* Danilo Gallinari ,*NYK 0.414965986 - 412 minutes
* Zabian Dowdell ,*PHX 0.409836066 - 293 minutes
* Bill Walker ,*BOS 0.405405405 - 215 minutes
* Brandan Wright ,*GSW 0.404040404 - 376 minutes (plus, this was in 2007 -- way to sneak that one in)
* Garrett Temple ,*SAS-SAC-HOU 0.403225806 - 335 minutes
Click to expand...

so there are 26 qualified players with a better PPM than burks -- which is right inline with what i was saying about there being 5 per year that perform at that level on a statistically valid sample.

what's more, look at those 26 names. they're not all stars, but they are for the most part very solid. in fact, i went and looked to see how many of those 26 were first or second all-rookie team selections based on those performances. i captured that on the following list just to show the people who accomplish what alec did are generally regarded as the best rookies in their respective classes.

* Kyrie Irving ,*CLE 2012 1st team (ROY)
* Blake Griffin ,*LAC 2011 1st team (ROY)
* Kevin Durant ,*SEA 2008 1st team (ROY)
* Rodrigue Beaubois ,*DAL NA
* Marcus Thornton ,*NOH NA
* Michael Beasley ,*MIA 2009 1st team
* Tyreke Evans ,*SAC 2010 1st team (ROY)
* Klay Thompson ,*GSW 2012 1st team
* DeMarcus Cousins ,*SAC 2011 1st team
* Roy Hibbert ,*IND NA
KOBE BRYANT
* Nick Young ,*WAS NA
* O.J. Mayo ,*MEM 2009 1st team
* Stephen Curry ,*GSW 2010 1st team
* Tyler Hansbrough ,*IND NA
* Marreese Speights ,*PHI NA
* Jordan Crawford ,*WAS-ATL NA
* Carl Landry ,*HOU 2008 2nd team
* Brandon Jennings ,*MIL 2010 1st team
* A.J. Price ,*IND NA
* Russell Westbrook ,*OKC 2009 1st team
* Eric Gordon ,*LAC 2009 2nd team
* Jonny Flynn ,*MIN 2010 2nd team
* Reggie Williams ,*GSW NA
* Al Thornton ,*LAC 2008 1st team
* Gary Neal ,*SAS 2011 1st team
* Derrick Rose ,*CHI 2009 1st team (ROY)
* Alec Burks ,*UTA NA

pretty solid list if you ask me.
 
So you're saying there's a chance Alec could become the next Kobe...YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA
 
MoTown16 said:
So you're saying there's a chance Alec could become the next Kobe...YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

no, i never said that. OP might have said/insinuated that. all i have ever said in this thread is that alec's scoring rate is actually pretty good for a rookie. only the top rookies each year score at that rate on a valid sample size, as my last post shows. i don't think he's a future kobe, but he is in the conversation with some elite rookie scorers.
 
Alec Burks had a solid rookie season, but I'm not ready to put "elite" in front of his name. If he comes out this season with solid improvement over last, maybe I'll take a sip of that kool-aid.
 
again, i'm not calling him elite overall... i was just responding to the notion that his scoring rate from last season was ho-hum for rookies. it's not, only a few rookies each year score at that rate, and pretty much all of them are regarded as that year's top rookies.
 
My only concern about those stats is that it's based on 938 minutes. Anyone who's actually good on that list had a much higher sample size.

I want to agree with you and I HOPE he does better with more minutes and not worse. Everything seems to make me think that he can and will improve, but he's not one of the top rookies just based on those stats.
 
sure, i think obviously those are the big questions for alec... 1) is he ready for a more steady role, something in the range of 20 mpg, which would be 1600+ minutes for the season; and 2) can he maintain that scoring efficiency even while nearly doubling his minutes?

if the answer to both of those questions is yes, then we're looking at nearly double figures from him. honestly, i'd even be ok if he got to the 7-9 ppg range while also rounding out other areas of his game. we (in theory) have a lot of guys on this team who can score, so it'd be great to see his overall decision-making improve. that will probably get him more minutes in the long haul.
 
Hey Nerd,
I think on this one we are ultimately not going to see eye to eye and it doesn't matter, but since you're saying that I was sneaking data into the list by using rookies drafted in 2007 I wanted to ask, which drafts did you think I should have used? I figured 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 would make the most sense. The fact that you only pointed out a couple of 2007 guys makes me wonder if I made an error and if there are actually more who belong on the list.

I disagree with your argument in this thread (especially if you don't arbitrarily cut the list off exactly when you reach Alec), but who cares. I'd obviously love to see Burks turn out to be as good as the OP was trying to suggest, and I'm sure you would too.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Hey Nerd,
I think on this one we are ultimately not going to see eye to eye and it doesn't matter, but since you're saying that I was sneaking data into the list by using rookies drafted in 2007 I wanted to ask, which drafts did you think I should have used? I figured 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 would make the most sense. The fact that you only pointed out a couple of 2007 guys makes me wonder if I made an error and if there are actually more who belong on the list.

I disagree with your argument in this thread (especially if you don't arbitrarily cut the list off exactly when you reach Alec), but who cares. I'd obviously love to see Burks turn out to be as good as the OP was trying to suggest, and I'm sure you would too.
Click to expand...

you included guys from 2006-7, 2007-8, 2008-9, 2009-10, 2010-11 and 2011-12. that's 6 rookie classes, not 5.

and i didn't arbitrarily cut the list off at alec. the argument was about how rare it is or isn't to reach the level alec reached. if a guy didn't reach that level, then he's kind of irrelevant to that discussion. still, i left the complete list in the first part of my post, and only truncated the list on the second blow because i was showing that pretty much the only guys who exceeded alec's rookie scoring efficiency were all-rookie first-teamers...

(...and because, honestly, i don't care enough about this argument to spend a half hour per post. my point was rather simple, and you and others are attacking it by making it sound like i'm saying more than i really am. burks' feat is not a dime-a-dozen accomplishment. that's all i was saying. i think i have proven that one pretty solidly.)
 
theNBAnerd said:
you included guys from 2006-7, 2007-8, 2008-9, 2009-10, 2010-11 and 2011-12. that's 6 rookie classes, not 5.

and i didn't arbitrarily cut the list off at alec. the argument was about how rare it is or isn't to reach the level alec reached. if a guy didn't reach that level, then he's kind of irrelevant to that discussion. still, i left the complete list in the first part of my post, and only truncated the list on the second blow because i was showing that pretty much the only guys who exceeded alec's rookie scoring efficiency were all-rookie first-teamers...

(...and because, honestly, i don't care enough about this argument to spend a half hour per post. my point was rather simple, and you and others are attacking it by making it sound like i'm saying more than i really am. burks' feat is not a dime-a-dozen accomplishment. that's all i was saying. i think i have proven that one pretty solidly.)
Click to expand...
Let's just forget about all the rest because it's become abundantly obvious that your parameters for this argument and mine simply don't match, but since you've accused me of sneaking names in there that didn't belong in the discussion how about telling me who on that list played in the 2006-07 NBA season?
 
ah my bad... for some reason i thought jc navarro and brandan wright were a year ahead. pardon the oversight and you can add those two back to the list... one to the portion that played the qualifying amount of minutes and one to list who didn't.

but i don't think it's just that our parameters are different... i think we're having two completely different conversations. you are trying to explain to me why burks isn't as good as kobe, and i'm saying no duh he's not as good as kobe, but good for him that he's off to a better start than people realize.

we can stop making this about hyperbole and just admit that not many rookies do what burks just did from a scoring rate perspective. that's all this has been about.
 
theNBAnerd said:
sure, i think obviously those are the big questions for alec... 1) is he ready for a more steady role, something in the range of 20 mpg, which would be 1600+ minutes for the season; and 2) can he maintain that scoring efficiency even while nearly doubling his minutes?

if the answer to both of those questions is yes, then we're looking at nearly double figures from him. honestly, i'd even be ok if he got to the 7-9 ppg range while also rounding out other areas of his game. we (in theory) have a lot of guys on this team who can score, so it'd be great to see his overall decision-making improve. that will probably get him more minutes in the long haul.
Click to expand...
Agree with your points. Burks can score. And isn't that why he was drafted at #12? I think he has the potential to become either a solid starter or a Maggette-type player off the bench. Actually, I'd kind of like him to fill that 6th-man role. Jazz have struggled a lot with getting production out of their bench.

Imagine a 2nd unit of Millsap-Kanter-Burks-Foye and either Hayward or Williams at SF (whoever rotates back in or stays on the court). That's great balance with Millsap's mid-range game, Foye's 3-Pt shooting, Burks driving inside, the SF's cutting to the basket and Kanter underneath to score off dishes or putbacks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top