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kobe or bron?

Eminence said:
Who would you put there? There are about four other viable choices in my eyes: either Moses or Karl Malone, Barkley, Dirk. Other than that I don't think anyone else is really in the conversation.
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No one else really?

Russell, Chamberlain, Kareem, Erving just for starters
 
Eminence said:
They are in similar tiers, but to me at this point it's pretty clearly Lebron. You can have the conversation for sure, but other than "ringz" and a longevity edge I can't really see too much in Kobe's favor.

My personal top-10 post merger:
10. Garnett
9. Bird
8. Robinson
7. Hakeem
6. Magic
5. Kobe
4. Shaq
3. Lebron
2. Duncan
1. Jordan
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i'm curious why you have david robinson over bird. even the biggest drob fan would not make such a ridiculous claim.
 
post merger. 1976-2015. super quickie top 30.

1. MJ
2. magic
3. duncan
4. kareem
5. bron
6. kobe
7. shaq
8. bird
9. hakeem
10. isiah
11. barkley
12. karl
13. stockton
14. moses
15. drob
16. ewing
17. dr. j
18. garnett
19. dirk
20. wade
21. mchale
22. pippen
23. payton
24. drexler
25. king
26. AI
27. worthy
28. rodman
29. kidd
30. nash
 
The Thriller said:
LOL!

Kobe?

He's a better version of Vince Carter. Ok ok that might be too harsh. But Kobe is a tier lower than Lebron and Jordan. I might even throw Timmy into that top tier.

Lebron is a mix of the GOAT and Magic. This finals performance of his cements him as #2. If he somehow comes back to win I'll gladly give him the GOAT title. Kobe would have been swept and poured in game 4. I don't think even the GOAT would've survived this series. Not with your alternative options being Mosgov, Delly, and JR Smith.

What Lebron is doing is like that player I created in 2k would have done. It's not his fault his dumbass GM traded wiggins for Love or passed up on a Faves and Exum trade. It's not his fault Kelly Olenick is an idiot or that Kyrie is made of glass.
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You do realize Bron basically forced the Cavs to trade for Love, right?
 
Lebron
Btw, **** kobe
 
i thought about my quickie list. and i think some players are just too close for a comparison. here is my tier

TIER 1
1. MJ

TIER 2
2. magic
3. duncan
4. kareem
5. bron

TIER 3
6. kobe
7. shaq
8. bird
9. hakeem

TIER 4
10. isiah
11. barkley
12. karl
13. stockton
14. moses
15. drob
16. ewing
17. dr. j

TIER 5
18. garnett
19. dirk
20. wade
21. mchale
22. pippen
23. payton
24. drexler
25. king
26. AI
27. worthy
28. rodman
29. kidd
30. nash

honestly you can switch spots and i won't have any problem with that.

i think most experts would have bron at tier 3. i just think bron just elevated himself to an elite category. and most likely he has another dominant 4-5 year run. he will just accumulate bulk stats, and will get to more championships (east is weak, and i think cavs will contend for next 3-4 years). if he can get to the championship and wins a chip few more times he will have his GOAT argument. and IMO, when it's all said and done bron will be #2 in the GOAT list all time. just don't think he has what it takes to overtake MJ.
 
Fabtrey said:
i thought about my quickie list. and i think some players are just too close for a comparison. here is my tier

TIER 1
1. MJ

TIER 2
2. magic
3. duncan
4. kareem
5. bron

TIER 3
6. kobe
7. shaq
8. bird
9. hakeem

TIER 4
10. isiah
11. barkley
12. karl
13. stockton
14. moses
15. drob
16. ewing
17. dr. j

TIER 5
18. garnett
19. dirk
20. wade
21. mchale
22. pippen
23. payton
24. drexler
25. king
26. AI
27. worthy
28. rodman
29. kidd
30. nash

honestly you can switch spots and i won't have any problem with that.

i think most experts would have bron at tier 3. i just then think bron just elevated himself to an elite category. and most likely he has another dominant 4-5 year run. he will just accumulate bulk stats, and will get to more championships (east is weak, and i think cavs will contend for next 3-4 years). if he can get to the championship and wins a chip few more times he will have his GOAT argument. and IMO, when it's all said and done bron will be #2 in the GOAT list all time. just don't think he has what it takes to overtake MJ.
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What is really hard about these list is trying to think about players separate from their teams.The only way to come close imo is to perform a thought experiment.

Example:

Imagine Duncan was drafted to the Spurs in 1989. How many chips does he win in the nineties. Would he have performed better or worse than Robinson? If Robinson was then drafted to the Spurs in 1997 Does he win 5 Rings? More? Less?

When I think about it I don't think Duncan could have carried the Spurs the way Robinson did. I honestly think the Spurs would have been even more dominating with the same team and Robinson than they have been with Duncan.

This example is probably one of the easiest of these kind of thought experiments to perform. For some player comparisons it's basically impossible.
 
If we're talking the last 5 minutes of a game, Kobe. If we're talking about a player to play for 1 fantasy game, Kobe. If we're talking about a player to build around for a franchise, LeBron.
 
Kyoto said:
If we're talking the last 5 minutes of a game, Kobe. If we're talking about a player to play for 1 fantasy game, Kobe. If we're talking about a player to build around for a franchise, LeBron.
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We are just talking who is a better basketball player. Anyone picking Kobe should just say they pick him because they dislike LeBron more. There is no intelligent argument for Kobe being a better player.
 
I assume everyone who is picking Lebron and saying it is not even close is under the age of 25, has a bad memory, is a bitter fan who hates him or thinks this debate is who is better right now and not in their prime.

I have no problem with someone thinking Lebron has currently had a better career and was a better player in his prime than Kobe, I disagree though. I think its a little silly to think its not close though. I assume they are both in your top 10 and not #1 so that seems close to me. I would like to see some lists from people who think Lebron is by far better and its not even a debate. Is Kobe not in your top 10? Is Lebron better than MJ to you?
 
Broncster said:
I assume everyone who is picking Lebron and saying it is not even close is under the age of 25, has a bad memory, is a bitter fan who hates him or thinks this debate is who is better right now and not in their prime.

I have no problem with someone thinking Lebron has currently had a better career and was a better player in his prime than Kobe, I disagree though. I think its a little silly to think its not close though. I assume they are both in your top 10 and not #1 so that seems close to me. I would like to see some lists from people who think Lebron is by far better and its not even a debate. Is Kobe not in your top 10? Is Lebron better than MJ to you?
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Having Lebron on ANY team instantly makes them championship contenders. You can probably gather a bunch of random guys from the gym and play them with Lebron, and they'll make the playoffs. Lebron is a more efficient scorer, better defender, and superior is practically every single category. Is Kobe a top 10 player? Maybe. I'd have to think about it. But Lebron is in the conversation for the best of all time. I honestly can't think of a single good reason to rank Kobe ahead of Lebron. Who cares if it's "close"? One player is simply better.

And no, I'm not under 25 and I have nothing against Kobe. I don't even care about the Lakers' hate that seems like a pre-requisite for being a Jazz fan.
 
Siro said:
Having Lebron on ANY team instantly makes them championship contenders. You can probably gather a bunch of random guys from the gym and play them with Lebron, and they'll make the playoffs. Lebron is a more efficient scorer, better defender, and superior is practically every single category. Is Kobe a top 10 player? Maybe. I'd have to think about it. But Lebron is in the conversation for the best of all time. I honestly can't think of a single good reason to rank Kobe ahead of Lebron. Who cares if it's "close"? One player is simply better.

And no, I'm not under 25 and I have nothing against Kobe. I don't even care about the Lakers' hate that seems like a pre-requisite for being a Jazz fan.
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Fair enough.

I think Kobe is a better scorer all-around, more clutch, much better shooter, much better defender, and most importantly a better winner. Dude wins games, Lebron does make teams instant contenders but losing 4 times in the finals shows he is not a winner, even if he has a custom built team with 3-4 all-stars.

I do think Lebron is bigger, better at finishing with contact, maybe has better court vision and better at looking to pass and is more efficient scorer.
 
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♪alt13 said:
What is really hard about these list is trying to think about players separate from their teams.The only way to come close imo is to perform a thought experiment.

Example:

Imagine Duncan was drafted to the Spurs in 1989. How many chips does he win in the nineties. Would he have performed better or worse than Robinson? If Robinson was then drafted to the Spurs in 1997 Does he win 5 Rings? More? Less?

When I think about it I don't think Duncan could have carried the Spurs the way Robinson did. I honestly think the Spurs would have been even more dominating with the same team and Robinson than they have been with Duncan.

This example is probably one of the easiest of these kind of thought experiments to perform. For some player comparisons it's basically impossible.
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agreed. circumstances can make or break players. 'what if' scenarios are endless though. i gave up doing that because at the end of the day we will never know. so the best way to do this is just compare their impact/greatness/accomplishments/eye test etc, etc. if MJ was playing in 60's he probably would not have been as good because he never saw dr. J. if karl was playing right now with our jazz team, he would have to play with trey and that would drive him mad.

but as far as duncan goes - IMO he was always better than robinson. duncan was a better leader, much more clutch, and smarter. also drob depended on his athleticism, but TD depended on his fundamentals and work ethic. that's why duncan could legitimately play till he is 40+. and IMO, duncan can carry bad teams. dude is naturally unselfish and he just get the job done.
 
fishonjazz said:
Maybe?
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Correct.

He looks to pass more, that doesnt necessarily mean he has better court vision. But I think he doesnt want to score more so he has to pass more. He is an efficient scorer, I think his teams would be better if he tried to score more points, if he can. Although I guess we saw what happened to his efficiency when he tries and score more. But he looks to pass, Kobe is looking to score with the ball. That does not make him unaware of the court though. I also think Kobe might be as good of a passer but chooses to score and put winning on his own shoulders.

So maybe he has better court vision.
 
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