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kobe or bron?

Hack said:
You can see he gets nervous about last second shots and doesn't look confident in those moments. The vibes come right through the tv. Anyone paying attention can see it and feel it.

Big game, give me Kobe, and it's not close
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Big game? Give me Stockton and Malone....just make sure Dick Brevetta is not on the court reffing!
 
Hack said:
This.

Kobe isn't a bad passer. He has great vision. He's so shown it many times. Just plays different. More selfish.

Kobe = Selfish and not scared
Lebron = Unselfish and slightly scared.

There is truth to that. You can see he gets nervous about last second shots and doesn't look confident in those moments. The vibes come right through the tv. Anyone paying attention can see it and feel it.

Big game, give me Kobe, and it's not close
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i get what you coming from. bron's clutch perception isn't that great. and i think he does look uneasy in the clutch.

but the innate problem with this argument is that bron has been been a better clutch player.
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i think this stat came out last year. not sure what bron's updated number looks like. i know he made some and missed some.
anyway i find above stats hard to believe, but it's been well documented that bron is not a bad clutch player. kobe's number went down hill because i think it's because kobe just takes too many ill advised shots.

kobe/MJ are the ultimate alpha dog. they are aggressive go-getting scorers. 10 sec left, MJ/kobe knows exactly what they are doing. 'it's clutch time' for them. we know mj/kobe will shoot. and they will live/die with it. but bron had many moments where he passed up the opportunity. and i think that stuck to fans.
 
Broncster said:
Correct.

He looks to pass more, that doesnt necessarily mean he has better court vision. But I think he doesnt want to score more so he has to pass more. He is an efficient scorer, I think his teams would be better if he tried to score more points, if he can. Although I guess we saw what happened to his efficiency when he tries and score more. But he looks to pass, Kobe is looking to score with the ball. That does not make him unaware of the court though. I also think Kobe might be as good of a passer but chooses to score and put winning on his own shoulders.

So maybe he has better court vision.
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bron has a better court vision.
 
Fabtrey said:
bron has a better court vision.
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This obviously. And it's not close.

Lebron has often been compared to magic for his curry vision.

The argument that kobe has great curry vision but just chooses not to use it could be made for any scorer.
 
This series we also found out afterward there were many times LBJ ignored the coach and ran his own play. You have to wonder if he would have been better off doing what the coach asked, and what they probably ran in practice, rather than going maverick so much. With a team lacking stars running the plays they know would likely be way better than just winging it, which the scrubs just typically are not good at.
 
Broncster said:
Whats curry vision?
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....excellent point! Certainly better than Lebrons! Plus, Curry shoots a higher percentage from the field, 3 point land and free throws! Case closed! Curry should have gotten whatever votes Iggy didn't get! Lebron should have been shut out on votes!
 
What stat I would like to see but dont care to look up is in games decided by less than 5 points or so, who has a better winning percentage in the playoffs. Might be Lebron since his teams have had a lot more close games it seems like. Kobe's teams seem to win by more but I dont know.
 
Hack said:
I don't mean just the last minute of a game. I mean the whole game.

When watching Lebron in big games, I don't get feeling of urgency or a feeling of heroics from him. He seems to play the same as if it's just another game. He actually seems to shrink a little towards the end. Instead of sticking to passing so much much, he needs to take over and be a little selfish. Like he did in the 2007 playoffs against the Pistons. That's the Lebron I want to see. He also sometimes appears to quit with a few minutes left in a game if he thinks its hopeless.

You can pull out all sorts of statistics that support Lebron being a big gamer, but everyone who watches basketball knows what I'm saying. Lebron leaves something left to be desired in big games, even if he gets a triple double. I know that sounds crazy, but he does.
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yeah, bron is not one of those killer scorer like mj/kobe. Bron will always get you 30-40 pts when you need him because he can get to the rim, and he does have good enough shooting ability. but he doesn't have 45-55pts in him. IMO bron is a pass first magic+worthy without magic's creativity. i love worthy. he can run with the best of them, and get to the rim. bron is definitely not magic+ MJ. he doesn't have the killer go to moves. bron is good at alot of thing, but IMO bron doesn't have a bailout move. kobe/MJ always had a fadeaway bailout jumper. bron's jumper is damn good, but it's not a deadly weapon.

if bron didn't have the court vision and passing ability. bron could've been the greatest robin - scottie pippen mold. but his true gift is the court vision and his passing, so sometimes he becomes the victim of his own greatness.
 
Broncster said:
Fair enough.

I think Kobe is a better scorer all-around, more clutch, much better shooter, much better defender, and most importantly a better winner. Dude wins games, Lebron does make teams instant contenders but losing 4 times in the finals shows he is not a winner, even if he has a custom built team with 3-4 all-stars.

I do think Lebron is bigger, better at finishing with contact, maybe has better court vision and better at looking to pass and is more efficient scorer.
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We have seen stats that Bron is more clutch, that he is a better, and more efficient scorer and facilitator, and that he makes his teammates much better in comparison to Kobe.

It's amazing though that Kobe has never shot over 36% on 3 pointers, yet he's the better shooter compared to Bron who's best is 40%. Fwiw, both have about the same number of career attempts per game, Bron has the better percentage.

Statistically, Bron is better. Eye test, Bron is better. It truly isn't that debatable.
 
Howard said:
We have seen stats that Bron is more clutch, that he is a better, and more efficient scorer and facilitator, and that he makes his teammates much better in comparison to Kobe.

It's amazing though that Kobe has never shot over 36% on 3 pointers, yet he's the better shooter compared to Bron who's best is 40%. Fwiw, both have about the same number of career attempts per game, Bron has the better percentage.

Statistically, Bron is better. Eye test, Bron is better. It truly isn't that debatable.
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i trust kobe's 3pt shooting over bron's. kobe just shoots too many contested 3pt shots. IMO kobe made more timely 3pt shots than bron.
 
Hack said:
How is he not in the conversation?


Kobe is 3rd all time in scoring
Has 5 rings
Scored 81 points in a game
Had a season where he averaged 35, 5 & 5
Has a career average of 25, 5 & 5



Yes Kobe needed help to win Championships. Newsflash! So did Jordan and everyone else. So does Lebron. That's why Lebron is LOSING in the finals more than he is winning. Lebron's two rings are from when he played with Dwayne Wade and Bosh.

Lebron plays in a consistently weak Eastern Conference. Kobe had to battle good West teams (Including the Great Spurs) year in and year out.

Who's to say a prime Kobe couldn't drag a pathetic Eastern team to the finals in the east

Kobe is definitely in the conversation as being a good as Lebron. The question is whether or not they are in the same conversation as Jordan. I think they are, but I also think they fall just short, both of them do, not by much, but they do.


Michael Jordan is in a Tier all by himself. (Barely)

Kobe and Lebron are in the next Tier. You can argue Lebron is better, but Kobe is in the argument. For Sure.
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Kobe always has talent on his team, but refuses to use it.
 
Jaymz said:
Kobe always has talent on his team, but refuses to use it.
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that doesn't even make sense. kobe went to 7 finals and won 5 when the lakers were talented. even though kobe was a 'robin' in his first 3 rings, he was a great robin. dude flat out dominated. shaq/kobe really was one of the best one two punch combo ever.
 
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