memo is money
Active Member
Calling KOC unsuccessful in this off-season is insanity. It is BS, seriously.
KOC had a terrible off-season
- Thread starter oldtimer
- Start date
Calling KOC unsuccessful in this off-season is insanity. It is BS, seriously.
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
They did both get something.
Boozer got the satisfaction of returning a favor to the team that really vaulted his career and treated him unbelievably well, even giving him playing time when he was making no effort whatsoever to defend
. It is also possible that the Jazz helped to set his price and were part of the negotiations, offering a lower but still substantial amount. But any part of the negotiations wasn't necessary.Chicago got a pick out of it, which is chump change. They might have gotten some CBA benefit also, or maybe some cash consideration as you mentioned, but I'm not aware of what it would be.
Extra credit for appropriate use of Boozerism.
I wouldn't say he had a bad season, but his conservative approach certainly backfired with Matthews. And whether or not Matthews' agent withheld info from him, there's no doubt from the reaction of Matthews immediately after the Jazz failed to match, that he was greatly disappointed that they didn't. And so was I, because I think in the long run it would've been a good decision. As far as I'm concerned, I think Matthews will have as good a career as Millsap. And both of them are cut from the same cloth. Guys who exceed their expectations and get the most out of their ability, much like John and Karl.
Isn't that kind of what you want out of people? I honestly hope you're not satisfied with how things have worked out for the last 30 years or so.
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
Contributor
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
The Jazz are historically very conservative. I didn't expect much out of KOC this year and he did what he needed to in order to field a competetive team. Just once I would love to see them go for something beyond competetive and really throw caution to the wind to see what we could get. But that is not the Jazz way. Since I know that, then KOC did fine this offseason given the Jazz's temperament and sensitivity to risk.
I like Mathews, but he is'nt the game changer for the Jazz. He is just a good role player, like Millsap(sorry Millsap homers)
KOC did fine this offseason. His mistakes were made much earlier. The big ones. Like hanging onto AK at all costs and such. Those were the big deals that screwed us up. To a lesser extent Memo's contract turned out to be a headache too. That's 28 million between these two guys. And that is what stands between a small market team and a championship. That kind of money. Not Bell or Mathews.
KOC did fine this offseason. His mistakes were made much earlier. The big ones. Like hanging onto AK at all costs and such. Those were the big deals that screwed us up. To a lesser extent Memo's contract turned out to be a headache too. That's 28 million between these two guys. And that is what stands between a small market team and a championship. That kind of money. Not Bell or Mathews.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I think KOC did a great job this past summer in engineering the Al Jefferson trade. we easily could have lost Boozer and Matthews without anything to show for it.
KOC did a fine job constructing a competitive team.
Where I find fault is in past years. We've needed to unload AK's contract and find some help for Deron. Our 2s and 3s have been horrible for years.
KOC did a fine job constructing a competitive team.
Where I find fault is in past years. We've needed to unload AK's contract and find some help for Deron. Our 2s and 3s have been horrible for years.
In my view, KOC's only mistake in Matheews case, was not having a team option for extending the contract after the rookie year. He was an undrafted rookie who had a roster spot after the pre-season camp and I guess a team option might have been arranged ( with a some increase on rookie contract).
The problem is that Matthews is proving to be more than just a role player. The guy is in his 2nd season in NBA, just turned 24, and ever since he became a starter in Portland is averaging essentially the same numbers Roy did in his second year. When starting (which is now his permanent job) he is putting up 20 ppg on 47% FG and 38% 3s. And he is outstanding defender. Even as a rookie he was the best Jazz defender, according to the team stats collected to measure that area. What's also relevant, Matthews is doing that for a play-off team that's > 500 (according to today's record), not for some garbage team like NJ or Minnesota. And we had the guy's rights and could match any offer. Now it's Portland who has an all star caliber player for mid-level salary. Matthews is actually well underpaid right now compared to his performance.
The question is - why didn't Jazz brass see the potential here for at least mid-level type of salary, and Portland did? I mean last year they did the same for Paul Millsap, and thanks to that we now have Paul for less than his market value. Didn't Sloan have the guy for a year and loved him? Didn't Jazz get better look at him than anyone else? I mean we fans may be outraged at Portland's offer, because it seems high for a young guy who went undrafted, but we didn't see Wes on daily basis, like KOC and Sloan did. Shouldn't it have been obvious for people that see Wes every day for a year that he was worth at least mid-level and had great potential? And this is not the first time it happened either. Remember Mo Williams?
But much, much, much better than Raja. And Raja will be doing sideline reports while Wesley is still getting better.
It sure would help to have a guy who really plays defense, can drive and finish as well as hit the 3 ball.
Raja certainly was a cheaper and nearly as good replacement of what Wes produced last year. No argument there. KOC found a great way to replace Wes' last year's production for a fraction of the price Wes demanded. However, that was Wes' rookie year. Raja is 34. Wes of this year is worth a lot more than mid-level, which is the salary KOC was not willing to keep him at. And as far as Wes not being a second coming, when the guy is putting up 20 ppg on 47% FG and 38% 3FG, while playing outstanding defense on a winning play-off caliber team in just his second year, who is the second coming? And what bothers me more is that this is not the first time it happened. We lost Mo Williams the same exact way. Is Jazz FO incompetent of evaluating their own players? We are not talking about MAX or near MAX contracts here (when it comes to that, we are trigger happy, as AK and Memo can attest). This was mid-level (or average) salary.
NotDeadYet
Well-Known Member
My suspicion is the decision to resign or not resign Matthews was not KoC's; I expect the Millers made that call. Just like the mandated 13 man roster this year. they passed down to KoC. They are willing to spend up to a point, but are saving on expenses at the same time...
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Those who became Jazz fans in 2006 will find this laughable, but in alot of ways I think losing Wes Matthews will be similar to losing Shandon Anderson. Yes, I know Anderson (with an assist from Dan Fagen) left on his own volition but I think from a basketball-standpoint the result will be similar in that it really crippled us theh following year in 1999-00 and to some degree in 2000-01 but longterm it was actually beneficial.
Losing Wes will hurt is this year and possibly next, but once his salaries reach $6.5, $6.9 and $7.2 I think we'll be glad he's not on the payroll.
Losing Wes will hurt is this year and possibly next, but once his salaries reach $6.5, $6.9 and $7.2 I think we'll be glad he's not on the payroll.
Stop with ludicrous Anderson comparisons. Wes is producing now in his second season more than Anderson has EVER produced in his career. And it is not even close.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Not saying Anderson was good as Wes (although it was different a era of basketball - it's alot easier to put up good offensive numbers now), just saying after 98-99 Anderson was a young, athletic, and talented hard-nosed defender who was rapidly improving his 3pt-shot and looked to be a major part of the franchise's future. Losing him really hurt short-term. For the remainder of the Stockton/Malone tenure - Sloan would mention losing Shandon Anderson as an example where no matter how tough it is to lose a talented player for nothing - players and coaches have to put those things past them and come to work and do their job. Some roster moves can look bleak at the time but 2-3 years down the road they look drastically different.