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KOC had a terrible off-season

Borat said:
Choosing Raja and Elson over Matthews for a mere 1.5 mil difference in luxury tax payments was a huge mistake then as well.
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Jazz had to sign Elson regardless. He was insurance if Memo could not play.
Jazz choice would have been Raja and Elson or Matthews and Elson.
How much more would Wes and Elson be than Raja and Elson?
How would that affect LT money?
 
I usually don't like to call out individual posters, but this fresh wave of "Should've matched on Matthews" stuff is really starting to piss me off when the overwhelming majority agreed O'Connor made the correct move in July, so I went back to the old Wes Matthews threads to see what everyone thought then.

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?1021-Mathews-signs-offer-sheet-w-Blazers-(5-yrs-34-mil)/page31
Borat said:
Look, Root, I already said once 34 mil offer came out, whether KOC negotiated or not, it is a moot point from keeping Wes perspective: the offer is just too high. I don't want the Jazz to match at this point, but instead get us some other players.
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https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?1116-Great-move-by-KOC-whats-next&p=26173#post26173
Borat said:
No, Wes is gone. He is already grossly overpaid, now we double that with the luxury tax? Forget about it.
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vslice02 said:
I usually don't like to call out individual posters, but this fresh wave of "Should've matched on Matthews" stuff is really starting to piss me off when the overwhelming majority agreed O'Connor made the correct move in July, so I went back to the old Wes Matthews threads to see what everyone thought then.

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?1021-Mathews-signs-offer-sheet-w-Blazers-(5-yrs-34-mil)/page31


https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?1116-Great-move-by-KOC-whats-next&p=26173#post26173
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Great find, Slice. Bravo! I had to laugh reading this, but like I told you before, I, and all others were under impression Greg was done going into the luxury tax territory. Yet he turned around and signed Raja and Elsen for about the same price LATER. Of course at the time I thought there is no way Greg could do it. That's the whole point - we ended up paying the double in luxury tax ANYWAY, because Greg agreed to it. But for old players instead of Wes. Get it?
 
BOX said:
Lets be clear....your the one making moronic statements. Gald you are a member of Mensa congrats on being the sole moron.
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Which statements were moronic? That we should have kept Wes for about the same price as we got Elsen and Raja? Keep them coming, Einstein.
 
I see what you're saying but there's more than just the $1.58 million 2010-11 savings between the salaries of Matthews and Elson + Bell's cap figures. It's about the Millers saving actual real-life dollars. Matthews makes $5.8 mill this year but also received a $3.4 million bonus meaning he would've been paid $9.2 million this season. Not to mention, about a 1/3 of Elson's salary is not paid for by the Millers but by the league - effectively saving twice as much since only the percentage of salary paid for by the Jazz will be taxed.
 
vslice02 said:
I see what you're saying but there's more than just the $1.58 million 2010-11 savings between the salaries of Matthews and Elson + Bell's cap figures. It's about the Millers saving actual real-life dollars. Matthews makes $5.8 mill this year but also received a $3.4 million bonus meaning he would've been paid $9.2 million this season. Not to mention, about a 1/3 of Elson's salary is not paid for by the Millers but by the league - effectively saving twice as much since only the percentage of salary paid for by the Jazz will be taxed.
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Ok, so it is not 1.5, but 1.7 extra in luxury tax. I just don't think it is the amount Miller would bulk at. I see him saying no to 5.5 mil in lux payments. That's what I would likely say in his place. But if he agreed to pay extra 3.8 for Raja and Elsen, might as well make it 5.5 to keep a young perspective guy instead. And whatever he pays in bonus first year is subtracted from remainder of the contract, so that does not any cost to the total contract. I just think this one is squarely on KOC. Greg was willing to go deeper into the tax, as he showed with Raja and Elsen. And that's something no one on the board knew at the time, but I am sure he and KOC did.
 
Borat said:
Which statements were moronic? That we should have kept Wes for about the same price as we got Elsen and Raja? Keep them coming, Einstein.
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although I do want to point out this post was moronic in that you asked which statements were moronic and posted one statement...I was waiting for the or so I could have had a choice in telling you one or both moronic.
 
vslice02 said:
I usually don't like to call out individual posters, but this fresh wave of "Should've matched on Matthews" stuff is really starting to piss me off when the overwhelming majority agreed O'Connor made the correct move in July, so I went back to the old Wes Matthews threads to see what everyone thought then.

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?1021-Mathews-signs-offer-sheet-w-Blazers-(5-yrs-34-mil)/page31


https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?1116-Great-move-by-KOC-whats-next&p=26173#post26173
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BTW epic ownage here +1 rep
 
BOX said:
although I do want to point out this post was moronic in that you asked which statements were moronic and posted one statement...I was waiting for the or so I could have had a choice in telling you one or both moronic.
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I feel that the remarkable eloquence of this statement is the perfect conclusion to the debate between us.
 
BOX said:
BTW epic ownage here +1 rep
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Slice definitely did his homework, and I praised him for that. Of course I also did point out already that these statements were made BEFORE we knew Greg was willing to go deeper into the luxury tax by signing guys like Raja and Elsen (in addition to getting AJ), which was at the heart of entire argument. Surprisingly, you were not able to grasp that point, so hopefully repeating it helps.
 
Borat said:
Slice definitely did his homework, and I praised him for that. Of course I also did point out already that these statements were made BEFORE we knew Greg was willing to go deeper into the luxury tax by signing guys like Raja and Elsen (in addition to getting AJ), which was at the heart of entire argument. Surprisingly, you were not able to grasp that point, so hopefully repeating it helps.
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Too bad he decided to go deeper into luxury tax after we let Matthews go.
 
Borat said:
Slice definitely did his homework, and I praised him for that. Of course I also did point out already that these statements were made BEFORE we knew Greg was willing to go deeper into the luxury tax by signing guys like Raja and Elsen (in addition to getting AJ), which was at the heart of entire argument. Surprisingly, you were not able to grasp that point, so hopefully repeating it helps.
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*Elson x30- great job there, Einstein. Thought I would assist you since you seem to lack basic knowledge of our players names and have displayed this numerous times throughout this thread.
 
NUMBERICA said:
My favorite part is it's really not KOC's job to match a ridiculous offer sheet. Whether Matthews continues to produce like this does NOT change that that was an outrageous offer sheet and that it's not KOC's money.

But please, let's place this all on him.
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Too many quotes to disagree.

Numerica = voice of truth.


Jazzfan nation is convinced Portland is screwing Utah by offering ridiculous money to Sap and Then Mathews.

Guess not.....Duh.
 
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