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KOC's Method of Negotiation

The position from the Matthews camp from the beginning was that the opening bids for his services would start at the full MLE. That doesn't sound like he was willing to take less, and if he was then it is their fault for starting the bidding so high. I loved the kid as a Jazzman, but he's the enemy now.
 
Well, it sounds like he took the same approach he did with Millsap. So what does that tell ya. Leaves us vulnerable. Like Gotha said, I think it's better to be proactive. There will be less likelihood that this will reoccur as it did. To me, because KOC is such a weasel, everyone loses out. I think he needs to stop taking this approach.
 
gothapotamus said:
My main gripe is the reactive and not proactive approach. Hindsight will always be easier to understand details that weren't there at the time this all went down in real time. I think KOC needs to at least put an offer out, even if it's a low ball. Had they offered $2mill Portland would have been less inclined to be so aggressive perhaps in their raise. This could have amounted to Utah matching a lesser offer than what they were forced to decide on. All in all, it's not a catastrophic loss, but I think it could have been far better handled. I think Wes wanted to be here... But congrats to him on his pay raise. He'll be as great as Portland will allow him to be I think. But he woulda been better here fo sho.
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So you assume they just tell the other team what they got offered?

Matthews agent: Yeah Utah offer 2M... Can you beat that?
Portland: Sure we'll give you 2.3M
Agent: DEAL!

LOL

No more like this

Agent: Utah made an offer
Portland: What was it?
Agent: I can't tell you that? What are you willing to offer?
Portland: We'd be willing to go MLE
Agent: Deal!
 
I am not sure how it would go down, but there is potential that the dollar value would leak out thus giving other teams a baseline whereby they could start from. I think your scenario is highly possible as well, I just think that KOC could stand to be a little more proactive. I think it could have given a better chance for the Jazz to match or secure Matthews than they ended up having. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
YB85 said:
Isn't the guy they drafted at #9 their long term plan? Why tie up Matthews, who is still unproven, when they have a guy they liked so much they took him at #9? Bell is a stop gap. Matthews could have been a long term mistake. The Deacon is the answer. Fast offerings.
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Post of the year nominee.
 
gothapotamus said:
I am not sure how it would go down, but there is potential that the dollar value would leak out thus giving other teams a baseline whereby they could start from. I think your scenario is highly possible as well, I just think that KOC could stand to be a little more proactive. I think it could have given a better chance for the Jazz to match or secure Matthews than they ended up having. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Was he not proactive by issuing the qualifying offer which would give them right to match any offer? Knowing that Wes would most likely explore what was out there no matter what?
 
You offer your priority the minimum ... sure makes him feel wanted. Great negotiation tactic.


Let's face it, guys. You've seen KOC giving interviews. He has zero people skills. He couldn't negotiate his way out of a speeding ticket. That's why he uses this tactic.
 
They didn't really offer him anything. They extended what they had to in order to retain his rights.

Again, taking the fact that Portland are a bunch of stupid tossers out of the equation, the Jazz played their hand 100% correctly on this one.
 
So it goes in the NBA. You can't win them all. KOC worked his *** off this offseason and pulled the Jazz out of the potential cellar into contention again. He did everything the fans wanted. The Wesley situation was unfortunate, but we move on with the team we've got. Raja is no slouch and bring almost everything Matthews did, and veteran experience and leadership. I think we should let this go and thank the FO and the Millers for giving the fans another competitive team to root for. We just saw the Jazz org. do something it has never really done before. Savor the moment.
 
I don't think KOC is a complete buffoon. I do think that like write4u said, "you offer your priority the minimum..."? If he was the priority, why not be more proactive than the QO? There wasn't much that demonstrated that Wes was indeed the "priority 1a" that KOC said. I think the team is fine and it won't have a massively adverse effect on the Jazz. But I think there is a general consensus that Wes is preferred to Raja... just not at their respective price tags. Sure makes you wonder if the Jazz had offered Raja's size contract to Wes, what the outcome woulda been. Oh well.... Let's RING THE BELL
 
I agree that getting Bell is a big plus. So, I'm fine with that. I'm talking about another matter. Do we want to go through this every year with our players when it comes time to negotiate contracts? We need to take a different approach. We need to sell them why we want them. I don't think KOC does that. He just lets the money talk. If we were a big market team, then that might be okay. But we're Utah. We need a different approach. What has happened with Millsap and Matthews is proof of this.
 
The minimum offer ensures you have the right to match. Not a real offer. It shows interest. I'm sure KOC told Matthews he wanted him back but it would have to work for both sides.
 
It seems as though wrong4u and others aren't interested in facts...

From Ross Siler of the Tribune via Tweeter:
Wesley Matthews charges Jazz never made him an offer, but team was told from beginning it would take max midlevel to re-sign him. Jazz wanted to talk about three- and four-year contract options. Why would they start bidding at the ceiling of what could be offered? So they told Wes that if he wanted max midlevel, he'd have to go out and get it and they'd decide about matching.
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Kover got 5M
Lowery got 8M
Outlaw got 7M
Morrow got 4M
Salmons got 8M
Redick got 6Mish

Wes wasn't drastically lower than those guys. Be realistic here. He wasn't going to sign for 2M a year just to stay on the Jazz.
 
write4u said:
Ok, we need to move on, or I do, about not signing Matthews.
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I'm impressed. And here I thought you were the type to beat a dead horse until it broke down into fertilizer, grew into a tree, and then you beat the tree.

I stand corrected.
 
write4u said:
Ok, we need to move on, or I do, about not signing Matthews.

However, I think it's time to question KOC's method of "negotiation," in letting the market decide. As one poster put it, and I think it might've been on another site, it leaves the small market teams at the mercy of the larger market teams with more money.

Isn't it better to negotiate with the players you want, to assure them you want them back, and isn't it human nature that guys will take less to stay with the team they like and are comfortable playing for, and who they are going to get guaranteed playing time because they know their role and they fit well? So, you lock them up with a fair offer and don't worry about getting raped by other teams.

It's happened two years in a row now with Portland. Is KOC going to learn his lesson or continue being a weasel?

Bargaining in good faith worked for many years with Stockton. Don't see why it can't work again.
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Again, "child please..."
Stop crying about this & stop creating multiple threads on the same topic!

Have you read that management around the league question Portland's ricidulous offer to Matthews...??
He was an undrafted FA (not 2nd rounder) who fit our system & succeeded in this system. Let the market dictate his worth, then you decided on what you want to commit.
 
Chad Feldheimer said:
So what offer should they have made that a)would have been overall better than Raja Bell's deal. b) been good enough that Wes wouldn't have looked anywhere at all?
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I personally would have offered 4 years, 15M. Not too high to hurt us as far as the cap is concerned and also not five years so if he doesn't develop as we had hoped, his contract isn't seemingly never-ending. In general, he'd be a very tradeable asset too at that price. Yet, for Wes, this is a solid dollar amount and length of contract and one that would be tough to turn down I think.

Worst case. He turns it down and bolts. Which he did anyway.
 
You offer your priority the minimum ... sure makes him feel wanted. Great negotiation tactic.
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For the hundredth time, it's not the minimum. It was a qualifying offer made to retain his rights. The CBA dictates the amount of the qualifying offer. I think it's 125% of the player's previous salary, or the player's minimum salary plus $175,000, whichever is greater. And did we really need 3 threads about this? KOC did exactly what he should have done. This is on Mathews and his agent.
 
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