green
Well-Known Member
Well, that wasn't meant for you, so I apologize to you for the misunderstanding.
KOC's Method of Negotiation
- Thread starter write4u
- Start date
Well, that wasn't meant for you, so I apologize to you for the misunderstanding.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
So do you have any example of players besides Stockton. Because he was a different animal than most people and almost all professional athletes.
Get a clue how business works.
Good job ripping on yourself there, bub.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
I believe the story that came out before somebody got hurt feeling's.
Why can't they both be telling the truth? Jazz met with the agent and did not like what he was demanding so they never made a formal offer.
It's not like I don't believe Mathews it just does not fit with that we heard that the Jazz had met with his agent and he was demanding the full MLE. The Jazz were not interested at that value so there was no point in making a formal offer.
I don't buy that agents tell their clients everything that goes into negotiations and feel that Mathews is now not happy because he knows he is going to struggle to get minutes. He wanted the full MLE, figured that the Jazz would match if he proved he could get it. Portland wants to screw the Jazz and so they were the one team to make the offer that nobody (including the Jazz) felt he was really worth. It backfired as the Jazz went another way and now Wesley is likely going to pay for it with less minutes and opportunity.
NotDeadYet
Well-Known Member
We really don't know how well Matthews communicated with his agent on exactly what he wanted, or if this was communicated by Wes's agent to KoC. Given that fact, I find it silly to criticize KoC on this.
Agents agenda is always go for the $$$, and 99% of players are for that. A more veteran player who's been around agents likely would've been more forceful in ensuring their agent is doing what the player wants. Too many players just go along with their agent, assuming he'll do what's best. Who knows what was said between Matthews and his agent or his agent and KoC BEFORE Wes signed Portland's offer sheet. The agent could easily have neglected to mention Wes's desire to stay in Utah.
I really wanted to keep Matthews, but it's history now, so time to move on...
Agents agenda is always go for the $$$, and 99% of players are for that. A more veteran player who's been around agents likely would've been more forceful in ensuring their agent is doing what the player wants. Too many players just go along with their agent, assuming he'll do what's best. Who knows what was said between Matthews and his agent or his agent and KoC BEFORE Wes signed Portland's offer sheet. The agent could easily have neglected to mention Wes's desire to stay in Utah.
I really wanted to keep Matthews, but it's history now, so time to move on...
Keep drinking the juice dude. Raja is half the player Wes is.
That is the same contract Giricek got and he sucked. Wes prove to be a better player than Korver. He got paid 5$ million a year. So the MLE is not out of the question.
I think you are thinking about the old Raja. The current Raja has been passed around more then the ugly girl at the ward dance.
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yea, KOC said Wes was his priority but he had to wait until the Boozer deal. So people can say a lot of things. Just because Wes alledgedly said he wanted the MLE does not stop you from putting an offer on the table. The Jazz made the mistake of telling him to get an offer. Wes got an offer and the Jazz were dumbfounded. Look at what some other guys are getting in the league it should not have been a surprise especially after Millsap situation. If the Jazz truly meant that Wes was their priority they should have offered him the MLE. The Jazz were being cheap and they got burned. Now they are trying to cover it up by getting a cheaper player. Of course the majority of Jazz fans are happy beccause they think they got the same player in Raja Bell. Sorry but Raja is not the same player he was when he played for the Jazz especially and he has zero chance of getting better. He is who he is.
steelers6timechamps
Well-Known Member
here is one way to look at it an agent is like a attorney. greedy most of the time. he told mattews i can get you this much money lets find out what the jazz will offer then we will tell them we want the full mle then the jazz tells them to go and find an other team that will. so they did. but remember the agent has control of mattews building his confidence up for the high pay check. because agents are greedy and the bigger the contract the more the agent makes. if Matthews was really wanting to come back to the jazz he would of told his agent make it happen. the agent put blind folds on matthews . now when matthews goes to potty he will realize its not as fun iam not a starter.
Your so-called negotiation strategy assumes that your lowball offer is never going to be run by all the other possible suitors giving them a chance to beat it. It also makes the assumption that Wesley Matthews would be so overwhelmed by our lowball offer that he would then no longer talk to other teams and sign it on the spot. You're naive if you think we're any better off with this "strategy".
There's a good chance that the reason the agent went in asking for full MLE is because he already knew that such an offer was very likely. Not saying that anything illegal ever takes place in the NBA, but ...
These people are making transactions for millions of dollars and you act as if we're trying to buy a used car.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
KOC also made an offer to Millsap. And Millsap's uncle/agent was "insulted." So rather than counter with a slightly higher number, they shopped the market. write4u needs to go back and look at the reports last year. Millsap's camp originally said he and Lee should get about the same, because their numbers were similar. And do you recall what Lee was asking for? $12M!!! The deal Portland gave Millsap actually ain't that bad. In comparison to other PF's, Millsap's value was probably around $6-$7M. He's getting $8 average over 5 years, which is actually starting him at $6.5M with a 10% raise each year.
RE: Matthews, I'm sure the Jazz would have gladly given Wesley a deal in the $3M-$4M dollar range on Day 1. Remember the QO is only a formality required by the NBA to retain his rights. It's really not an "offer"; who has signed for the QO? And where's the accountability in this from Wesley and his agent, Before signing the deal, they could have phoned KOC and Greg and siad, "we're about ready to sign an offer sheet from Portland for the full MLE, but if you'll give us $25M/5 years, Wesley will sign a contract with the Jazz because he prefers the situaution he's in."
Wesley went for the big bucks and hoped Utah would match. They didn;t and now he has a bit of buyer's remorse thinking about what he's going to be missing out on.
But I'm not holding it against him. If I were going to be a the Jazz/Portland came, I'd be on my feet giving him a standing "O" when he stepped on the court. He's everything that's right about sports. But allowing an UFA with 1 year in the league to sign a MLE deal is some of what's wrong with the CBA. No way should he be making 50% more than the #1 pick in his draft class.
Hopper
Banned
Heh, how are they cheap, and could they "get burned" by not offerin the MLE? They can still match that now, or coulda if they wanted.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
When you boil everything down about this story, the 'fault', to the extent there is one, lies at Matthews feet. This has nothing to do with Matthews' character which is pretty unassailable. But his job is to first communicate to his agent what it is he's looking for. If he was truly serious about signing with the Jazz, his agent would have got past refusals to discuss any parameters outside the maximum amount of money he could get before the signing period. Then, when he found an offer, and it included not only the Max but a poison pill provision, he should obviously have contacted the Jazz before signing it if, indeed, he really would have taken a lesser offer to play with us. How could Matthews really think the Jazz might not balk at that offer? He knew the Jazz just came off a year when they went into the tax. He knew they had a tax/cap situation for this season. And he knew his agent wouldn't discuss lesser contracts the week before. You couldn't engineer your way out of town any better than that.
Players who don't think they are respected by their home team have done this, because the next year is usually unrestricted. Olowankandi comes to mind.
Hopper
Banned
You just don't git it, eh? If ya could trys to blame someone, and one is part of the Jazz while the other is part of any other NBA team, well, then, sez no mo: It gotta be the Jazz fault.
so after everything is over, Wesley says, who knows, if they had given me an offer I would have accepted on the spot. and you say oh my god, Wesley would have signed with us.
Grow the hell up. He would have compared that offer against others and taken the better deal.
Ahhhhrrrgg, I hate this thread because I thought I was out and you dragged me back in. Now I've signed up again and I will not be able to control myself when I see total crap arguments like yours. I hate you and you are making me cry. Feel bad, I demand it.
Grow the hell up. He would have compared that offer against others and taken the better deal.
Ahhhhrrrgg, I hate this thread because I thought I was out and you dragged me back in. Now I've signed up again and I will not be able to control myself when I see total crap arguments like yours. I hate you and you are making me cry. Feel bad, I demand it.
It certainly was high priority for the Jazz to get Matthews back, but that doesn't mean they were going to overpay him. Pretty much everyone agrees that Portland made a ridiculous offer for Matthews. Even his agent seemed genuinely surprised by the offer. The Jazz weren't cheap. They had an idea of what they wanted to pay and maybe were even willing to go a little higher to retain him, but Portland's offer was not even in the ballpark. Utah did not get burned. Portland made an offer that is bad for their team. They made an offer that does not improve their team anywhere near as much as $35 million should. They made an offer that I believe they will regret (that is, if they don't already).
I don't care how great you think Wesley Matthews is or if you think he's going to improve. That offer was out of whack with reality and it would have been a mistake on the scale of AK's max offer had we matched it.
gothapotamus
Well-Known Member
My nipples look like milkduds.