I think that's basically it, in a nutshell.
Maybe a little idealistic, but I really believe we could solve a lot of problems if we just treated each other better.
Lamar Odom Fighting for his Life
- Thread starter Red
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I think that's basically it, in a nutshell.
Maybe a little idealistic, but I really believe we could solve a lot of problems if we just treated each other better.
Red
Well-Known Member
People who go out of their way to enumerate all the reasons why others should not feel compassion toward another human being, because that human being has character flaws and/or has made terrible choices in life, are very, very strange people indeed. They speak from a position of moral superiority that most of us do not ourselves enjoy. And, they reflect very, very poorly on themselves, as the one poster in this thread has done. I refuse to address such people directly. In my personal life, I avoid such people like the plague. "Heartless" is not a character trait I look for in those I would call a friend.
The heart goes where it will go. Why tell others that their hearts are misdirected, their compassion misplaced? It's only natural to feel the plight of individuals, who, for one reason or another, are public personas in our lives. If we've come to like them, feel, however foolishly, that we know them, why begrudge our compassion for them when they fall on hard times? Why begrudge the compassion and empathy people feel toward someone who was, by most accounts, a man with a heart that knew no bounds?
The heart goes where it will go. Why tell others that their hearts are misdirected, their compassion misplaced? It's only natural to feel the plight of individuals, who, for one reason or another, are public personas in our lives. If we've come to like them, feel, however foolishly, that we know them, why begrudge our compassion for them when they fall on hard times? Why begrudge the compassion and empathy people feel toward someone who was, by most accounts, a man with a heart that knew no bounds?
Joe Bagadonuts
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fishonjazz
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That's sweet. Seriously. Good job Joe
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
Many are quick to use or quote the spurious passage at John 7:53–8:11..."he who is without sin....cast the first stone! They do so to minimize or even justify any and all actions by individuals and the consequences such actions bring! These 12 verses have obviously been added to the original text of John’s Gospel. They are not found in the Sinaitic Manuscript or the Vatican Manuscript No.*1209, though they do appear in the fifth-century Codex Bezae and later Greek manuscripts. They are omitted, however, by most of the early versions. It is evident that they are not part of John’s Gospel. One group of Greek manuscripts places this passage at the end of John’s Gospel; another group puts it after Luke 21:38, supporting the conclusion that it is a spurious and uninspired text. In other words, Jesus never made THAT statement! Yes, we all make mistakes....some of them more serious than others. The mistake Odom made were very serious and had tragic results. Was he aware of what those consequences would be? Had he been warned about the consequences of drug use before?
So God says it's okay for you to be a judgemental prick? Cool story!
But, but, he copied and pasted SCRIPTURE (along with other people's thoughts and ideas). We all know CJ is too dense to formulate such immaculate stupidity.
Red
Well-Known Member
"He respected everyone on the team," said a person who spent time with Odom on the USA Basketball team that won the FIBA world championships in 2010. "To Lamar, everyone was the same."
In some ways, that's one of the many sad ironies of the turn that Odom's life took on Tuesday, when he was found face-down and unresponsive in a brothel outside Las Vegas after a weekend of partying. A complicated, certainly imperfect man who never judged anyone now has his life and his very worth devoured by headline writers and entertainment reporters who never met him.
"Often times, athletes and entertainers and celebrities are kind of judged based on choices or decisions and that's not really representative of who they are," said Knicks coach Derek Fisher, who won two championships with Odom on the Lakers. "Lamar Odom is one of the greatest people I've ever known. And so that's the way I see him. I don't view him through the prism of choices that he's made. I view him through the heart and soul of the person that he really is."
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/write...-life-nba-friends-pray-he-gets-another-chance
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To me, that last thought by Fisher says it all.
"I don't view him through the prism of choices that he's made. I view him through the heart and soul of the person that he really is."
LO does not have to be seen as Fisher sees him, and of course he has the advantage of knowing him well, or at least far better then most of us do. But I do believe Fisher surely makes the right choice. The non judgmental choice. The "far be it for me" choice. The choice that recognizes we are all in the same boat, and avoids lapsing into superiority.
Social media is full of the quick to judge crowd. It's as if anonymity provides some kind of "free to be mean" attitude that appeals to many, is irresistible to some. I know I've lashed out frequently on some forums, and the subject of the effect of social media on our own emotional maturity is something that probably needs a society-wide look see at some point. It ain't pretty at times.
In some ways, that's one of the many sad ironies of the turn that Odom's life took on Tuesday, when he was found face-down and unresponsive in a brothel outside Las Vegas after a weekend of partying. A complicated, certainly imperfect man who never judged anyone now has his life and his very worth devoured by headline writers and entertainment reporters who never met him.
"Often times, athletes and entertainers and celebrities are kind of judged based on choices or decisions and that's not really representative of who they are," said Knicks coach Derek Fisher, who won two championships with Odom on the Lakers. "Lamar Odom is one of the greatest people I've ever known. And so that's the way I see him. I don't view him through the prism of choices that he's made. I view him through the heart and soul of the person that he really is."
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/write...-life-nba-friends-pray-he-gets-another-chance
------------------------------------
To me, that last thought by Fisher says it all.
"I don't view him through the prism of choices that he's made. I view him through the heart and soul of the person that he really is."
LO does not have to be seen as Fisher sees him, and of course he has the advantage of knowing him well, or at least far better then most of us do. But I do believe Fisher surely makes the right choice. The non judgmental choice. The "far be it for me" choice. The choice that recognizes we are all in the same boat, and avoids lapsing into superiority.
Social media is full of the quick to judge crowd. It's as if anonymity provides some kind of "free to be mean" attitude that appeals to many, is irresistible to some. I know I've lashed out frequently on some forums, and the subject of the effect of social media on our own emotional maturity is something that probably needs a society-wide look see at some point. It ain't pretty at times.
Red
Well-Known Member
"A complicated, certainly imperfect man who never judged anyone now has his life and his very worth devoured by headline writers and entertainment reporters who never met him."
All one has to do is read the comment section of any LO story these days, to see there are many people quick to pick up the entertainment news gauntlet and pile on. From the safe haven of anonymity. It's the case wherever social media is the venue. Things are said to each other that would never be said to each other's face. People put their anonymous names to hateful thoughts they would not dare sign their real names to. For fear their friends would be ashamed of them!! The courage to be mean and rotten. The courage to be hateful and angry. You can't escape it in incidents like this. The "holier then thou" crowd has a new cause. Take down this bad, bad man by the name of Lamar Odom.
I don't respect these cowards at all. Whether I find them in a comment section of a TMZ trash piece about a kind man, or whether I find it here, in the social media venue that is Jazzfanz. I don't respect such people. Speak as if all your family and friends were right there watching you speak. Are they all present? Good, now speak and let them know just how much hate you harbour. Let them see the real you. After all, you're not afraid to show all the other anonymous posters the real you.
And lest I too join the ranks of the "holier then thou", I freely admit to failings in all of this. I have been banned at least two times from forums for letting anger and argumentation get out of hand. I too live in a glass house, and I too have let social media bring out the worst in me. But, for that very reason, I have made a study of all this, in an effort to understand why I have misbehaved and why others have. I have not been immune from these failings of character. And each and every time, I have felt shame as a result. The incident passes and I'm left wondering "why did I behave that way? That's not me. Is it??" Well, sometimes it has been me. But I draw the line at trashing a good man with a big heart. I will not do that.
Look around. Do you see a lot of love in this world? It's really very easy to know why his brothers in the NBA have responded with unprecedented emotion and concern. It's because that which is good in ourselves recognizes how precious a man with a heart as big as all outdoors is in this world. Such people do not walk into our lives every day. We hold them close when they do, because we recognize we are lucky to know them. And we do look past their failings when we've seen into their heart. I would never make the choices this man made, it's not my world at all, but I recognize a lost soul when I see one. I recognize the heart, and underneath all that anguish and pain and self abuse that heart is still clearly seen, and worth all the prayers and respect in the world.
All one has to do is read the comment section of any LO story these days, to see there are many people quick to pick up the entertainment news gauntlet and pile on. From the safe haven of anonymity. It's the case wherever social media is the venue. Things are said to each other that would never be said to each other's face. People put their anonymous names to hateful thoughts they would not dare sign their real names to. For fear their friends would be ashamed of them!! The courage to be mean and rotten. The courage to be hateful and angry. You can't escape it in incidents like this. The "holier then thou" crowd has a new cause. Take down this bad, bad man by the name of Lamar Odom.
I don't respect these cowards at all. Whether I find them in a comment section of a TMZ trash piece about a kind man, or whether I find it here, in the social media venue that is Jazzfanz. I don't respect such people. Speak as if all your family and friends were right there watching you speak. Are they all present? Good, now speak and let them know just how much hate you harbour. Let them see the real you. After all, you're not afraid to show all the other anonymous posters the real you.
And lest I too join the ranks of the "holier then thou", I freely admit to failings in all of this. I have been banned at least two times from forums for letting anger and argumentation get out of hand. I too live in a glass house, and I too have let social media bring out the worst in me. But, for that very reason, I have made a study of all this, in an effort to understand why I have misbehaved and why others have. I have not been immune from these failings of character. And each and every time, I have felt shame as a result. The incident passes and I'm left wondering "why did I behave that way? That's not me. Is it??" Well, sometimes it has been me. But I draw the line at trashing a good man with a big heart. I will not do that.
Look around. Do you see a lot of love in this world? It's really very easy to know why his brothers in the NBA have responded with unprecedented emotion and concern. It's because that which is good in ourselves recognizes how precious a man with a heart as big as all outdoors is in this world. Such people do not walk into our lives every day. We hold them close when they do, because we recognize we are lucky to know them. And we do look past their failings when we've seen into their heart. I would never make the choices this man made, it's not my world at all, but I recognize a lost soul when I see one. I recognize the heart, and underneath all that anguish and pain and self abuse that heart is still clearly seen, and worth all the prayers and respect in the world.
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Red
Well-Known Member
Consider it a fact, Joe. Proud to call you a friend.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
SO WHY DO BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO GOOD PEOPLE?
...most are saying that's exactly what happened to Lamar Odom, correct? While it's true that "Time and unexpected events can over take anyone” (Ecclesiastes 9:11) and unanticipated events or accidents happen, and whether someone is affected or not depends to a large extent on where he is at the time they occur....is this REALLY what happened to Odom?....or....when individuals act on improper desires or give in to wrong cravings, was he not bound to suffer bad consequences? What happen to Odom was tragic. But I'm not going to sit here and make the guy out to be a "good person" who suffered a random tragedy when he was the one who made the decision to put himself in harms way and had a track record of drug abuse and a licentious life style! He had ample opportunity to get help and straighten out his life. He rejected that and choose bad associates and a life style that brought him to ruin. We're all imperfect and make some bad decisions....with consequences to pay. When given a second chance, most of us won't make the same mistake twice.
Lamar’s initial suspension came in March 2001; he was suspended for five games after he tested positive for marijuana and failed to cooperate with the league’s treatment program.
“This will definitely not happen again,” he said at the time. However, it did happen again—eight months later, when Lamar received his second violation in November 2001.
At the time Lamar admitted to using marijuana; now, however, he is reportedly using drugs that face harsher consequences—both on and off the court—even though Lamar said in 2001 that he did not see his drug problem escalating.
“I hope everyone doesn’t pass judgment on my mistake,” he said after his first suspension. “I’ve made a couple and I may make a couple again, but hopefully they won’t be as big as this one.”
Lamar Odom has been deep into crack cocaine for at least 2 years. Sources say Lamar's crack use was extreme before he went to rehab, but he cleaned up his act during the basketball season that just ended. Lamar went to a rehab facility and stayed for 3 weeks before bailing. Sources say shortly after he hung up his jersey, he started again with a bang.
His entire family staged an intervention, trying to convince Lamar to go back to rehab, but he wouldn't have any of it.
...most are saying that's exactly what happened to Lamar Odom, correct? While it's true that "Time and unexpected events can over take anyone” (Ecclesiastes 9:11) and unanticipated events or accidents happen, and whether someone is affected or not depends to a large extent on where he is at the time they occur....is this REALLY what happened to Odom?....or....when individuals act on improper desires or give in to wrong cravings, was he not bound to suffer bad consequences? What happen to Odom was tragic. But I'm not going to sit here and make the guy out to be a "good person" who suffered a random tragedy when he was the one who made the decision to put himself in harms way and had a track record of drug abuse and a licentious life style! He had ample opportunity to get help and straighten out his life. He rejected that and choose bad associates and a life style that brought him to ruin. We're all imperfect and make some bad decisions....with consequences to pay. When given a second chance, most of us won't make the same mistake twice.
Lamar’s initial suspension came in March 2001; he was suspended for five games after he tested positive for marijuana and failed to cooperate with the league’s treatment program.
“This will definitely not happen again,” he said at the time. However, it did happen again—eight months later, when Lamar received his second violation in November 2001.
At the time Lamar admitted to using marijuana; now, however, he is reportedly using drugs that face harsher consequences—both on and off the court—even though Lamar said in 2001 that he did not see his drug problem escalating.
“I hope everyone doesn’t pass judgment on my mistake,” he said after his first suspension. “I’ve made a couple and I may make a couple again, but hopefully they won’t be as big as this one.”
Lamar Odom has been deep into crack cocaine for at least 2 years. Sources say Lamar's crack use was extreme before he went to rehab, but he cleaned up his act during the basketball season that just ended. Lamar went to a rehab facility and stayed for 3 weeks before bailing. Sources say shortly after he hung up his jersey, he started again with a bang.
His entire family staged an intervention, trying to convince Lamar to go back to rehab, but he wouldn't have any of it.
CJ - do you know anything about addiction? I don't really from personal experience, nor have I had anyone among my close family and friends who have serious addiction issues, but I know from others who do that it is one tough nut to crack. The strongest, most well-intentioned of people can fall back into poor life-style behaviors and choices due to this.
So I'd like to cut him some slack in this regard and take it for what it worth's that people who know him well and have had long-standing relationships with him credit him as being a wonderful person.
that, to me, is what makes it even sadder and tougher to understand.
So I'd like to cut him some slack in this regard and take it for what it worth's that people who know him well and have had long-standing relationships with him credit him as being a wonderful person.
that, to me, is what makes it even sadder and tougher to understand.
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
...yeah, a little. I'm addicted to this site!
Red
Well-Known Member
Would anyone walk into a wake, and announce to the assembled friends and family: "Wait! This man had character flaws; he must not be remembered well!!"? Who would do such a thing? And if they did, what would be the result? The wake empties out, as everyone says. "He's right, the guy was a bum"? It would be a fool's mission to dissuade others from showing affection to someone they care about. Even murderers have loved ones who will rally around them. And LO is no murderer.
Absolutely nothing is gained taking this position. Rather then generate sympathy for this position, all the attention is immediately directed at the accuser in this case. Which is inevitable, as people naturally recognize it is sick to try and dissuade people from caring. Telling people they should be heartless is as losing a platform as I can imagine. The basic position of the negative commentator is: "People need to be more heartless, and Lamar Odom is a case in point". This is a losing proposition. In fact, it changes the very subject, as the question immediately arises "who would be so sick to propose such a thing??" and that becomes the subject. Again, the poster reflects on himself, while accomplishing nothing.
No, sorry, people will not be heartless. Expecting they can be so persuaded is very foolish.
The poster is asking that we be less then human!! How is it even possible that he thinks we will agree to such a request?
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
Dr. Jones said: "I'm also not feeling sorry for the guy, tbh. Make a fortune playing a sport, get drugged out with prostitutes, and expect me to be heart-broken? Naw.
Avery said: "I'd rather say my prayers for the millions of children in the world dealing with starvation than a drug-addicted ex-NBA player with untold riches who makes bad decisions."
♪alt13 said: "If I had that kind of money I would definitely spend a healthy portion on drugs and women, that and a zeppelin. I don't see that as wasteful!"
King Cy said: "He is paying for some young ladies college tuition, good on him!"
I said: "Sorry, pal, I'm not cutting this guy any slack! You can make him out to be the innocent victim, enable him all you want.....make all the excuses you can come up with. These and the others are the facts of the matter and that's how many of us feel."
....and you guys jump on me like I'm the scum of the earth? And now we have this report! "Doctors later revealed that he had “virtually every drug imaginable” in his system, including cocaine and opiates, when he was brought to the hospital.
Sources say the reality star’s “kidneys are shot” — and that he will likely need a transplant. Odom is expected to undergo at least six hours of dialysis a day, sources said."
So he will probably get that kidney from a donor....ahead of someone who didn't waste his life on drugs and liquor...simply because he's famous and has the money!
Avery said: "I'd rather say my prayers for the millions of children in the world dealing with starvation than a drug-addicted ex-NBA player with untold riches who makes bad decisions."
♪alt13 said: "If I had that kind of money I would definitely spend a healthy portion on drugs and women, that and a zeppelin. I don't see that as wasteful!"
King Cy said: "He is paying for some young ladies college tuition, good on him!"
I said: "Sorry, pal, I'm not cutting this guy any slack! You can make him out to be the innocent victim, enable him all you want.....make all the excuses you can come up with. These and the others are the facts of the matter and that's how many of us feel."
....and you guys jump on me like I'm the scum of the earth? And now we have this report! "Doctors later revealed that he had “virtually every drug imaginable” in his system, including cocaine and opiates, when he was brought to the hospital.
Sources say the reality star’s “kidneys are shot” — and that he will likely need a transplant. Odom is expected to undergo at least six hours of dialysis a day, sources said."
So he will probably get that kidney from a donor....ahead of someone who didn't waste his life on drugs and liquor...simply because he's famous and has the money!
Why is my post lumped in with the ones that don't have empathy for Odom?