Las Vegas Summer League thread

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Doke and Forrest are the only possible NBA players on our summer league roster.

God, the “me first” mentality of summer league makes it pretty unwatchable. Brantley is one of the worst offenders. I’m not at all sure what some of you see in Brantley, and I can’t believe the Jazz made him a QO. That dude’s still-pedestrian stats are nearly all empty calories.

Also noteworthy, Marcus Garrett is predictably tearing it up for the Heat by getting buckets and being a disruptor. Let all remember that I was the conductor on the Marcus Garrett train.

I just want Brantley and Oni gone. Signing an elite bench hypeman would be a better use of a roster spot than those two.

Brantley definitely not a me first guy. The only real me first guy on this SL team is Malachi Richardson. Everyone else has played pretty good team basketball considering it's SL.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Ya I mean small ball was destroying us. We had ersan that could play small ball. We played zero minutes total of small ball in the playoffs.

Ersan can play small ball?

Ersan's thing was just floor stretching, not guarding. He's a significantly worse perimeter defender than Rudy.

 

[homeytennis]

Udoka played well. #42 had some good plays as well and shot well - the announcers were garbage when it came to saying who did what and so I don't remember his name.

Hopefully Forrest plays better - it wasn't awful but we all know he should have had less turnovers and shot better than 3-10. His one three bounced in which was nice and as usual his defense was good. Being a Forrest homer I look forward to better games.

The bad Trent brick mason returned with a vengeance.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Brantley definitely not a me first guy. The only real me first guy on this SL team is Malachi Richardson. Everyone else has played pretty good team basketball considering it's SL.

Brantley and Forrest missed Udoka a couple times... Brantley set him up really nicely and Doke blew the finish once. Its not that guys are super selfish (outside of Richardson) its just that they don't have much incentive to make the right play if its a 50/50 situation ya know. Maybe its not so much me first as its they trying to show out and do too much. White has looked solid making normal role player basketball plays.

 

[Miggs]

Phoenix did with Saric like all year… then shifted based on what was left after injury. Clips for sure did. Denver does a version of this with Jamychal Green. Portland did with RoCo. It’s not something for every series… but in many series it would be a big advantage. Lakers don’t go “small” per se but they try to get to five out by playing AD at center.

Quin hasn’t had anyone nearly as qualified to do this as he does now. Quin is slow to change… but eventually he changes. Remember a few years ago playing Houston he ditched the Favs Rudy starting lineup.

Honestly DL may have saved his job by handing Quin a guy like Jamychal Green and giving him a five out option and then pointing to it later as a sign of Quin being too rigid and limited. Quin had garbage for versatility options on the bench outside of Joe. Niang is a good shooter but not much else there… Favs is a fine backup but has the same limitations that Rudy does and the benefits are far less.

Im very confident that we see small ball lineups during the year and in the playoffs. All the noise points to JZ, Quin, and others being on the same page. It is not hard at all to understand why Quin has been so rigid given the issues with DL the last 18-24 months. Why would you deviate from something that is winning when you are in a power struggle you might lose. Quin also watched Bud change up and win a title.

After the first round of the playoffs you will not see a traditional big as a backup center unless the matchup dictates that it’s necessary.

I’m not talking about all year. I’m talking about the playoffs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I’m not talking about all year. I’m talking about the playoffs.

So am I... Most teams go smaller every year... I cited plenty of examples. We were the exception but if your choices are Ersan or Favs then most coaches will go with Favs. Ersan wasn't on an nba roster most of the year. Quin should have tried something but Ersan was only going to help the offense and the defense would have been worse.

 

[Miggs]

So am I... Most teams go smaller every year... I cited plenty of examples. We were the exception but if your choices are Ersan or Favs then most coaches will go with Favs. Ersan wasn't on an nba roster most of the year. Quin should have tried something but Ersan was only going to help the offense and the defense would have been worse.

I guess we’ll see. I’d imagine if Quin doesn’t go Gay and we’re being hurt, he’ll be fired.

 

[Miggs]

I’d love to see Garnett in today’s NBA. I feel like he had a good 18-20 footer. Feel like he would become what we thought Thon Maker could be. All the elite defense still but a three point shot too and low post game as well.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I guess we’ll see. I’d imagine if Quin doesn’t go Gay and we’re being hurt, he’ll be fired.

Right... if I am DL I am giving Quin viable options and putting the blame on him when it doesn't work. I have a feeling DL was fine being let go... he's done quite well and is getting 100% of his money... will definitely get a new gig later. None of his moves last year scream "I'm going to be here later and am fine with the consequences of my decisions".

I'm willing to give Quin some benefit of the doubt based on how limited his personnel was defensively.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I’d love to see Garnett in today’s NBA. I feel like he had a good 18-20 footer. Feel like he would become what we thought Thon Maker could be. All the elite defense still but a three point shot too and low post game as well.

What moron thought Thon Maker was going to be KG with a 3pt shot?

 

[Miggs]

What moron thought Thon Maker was going to be KG with a 3pt shot?

Go back to the Thon threads. His persona on defense felt quite familiar. A ton of people thought so.

 

[Miggs]

Right... if I am DL I am giving Quin viable options and putting the blame on him when it doesn't work. I have a feeling DL was fine being let go... he's done quite well and is getting 100% of his money... will definitely get a new gig later. None of his moves last year scream "I'm going to be here later and am fine with the consequences of my decisions".

I'm willing to give Quin some benefit of the doubt based on how limited his personnel was defensively.

Yeah, I just wish we had one more Gay-like option. I don’t consider Paschall to be that option. Who knows. Maybe he’ll lose 20 pounds, bust his *** and look great. But I doubt it. I’d love one more Gay-like dude so we could go: Mike-Don-Royce-?-Gay and not get killed on one end or the other for short stints.

To be clear, we’re over the apron and can not use any TPE’s now or in-season?

 

[Miggs]

If Thompson has another major injury, I think they semi-gut it and look to trade Draymond. Bogey and a 1st for Draymond.
who says no?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Go back to the Thon threads. His persona on defense felt quite familiar. A ton of people thought so.

If anyone with a brain thought that he would have been the #1 pick.

 

[Miggs]

If anyone with a brain thought that he would have been the #1 pick.

Kobe went in the teens. Doncic went 5th. They reeked of elite talent. Not quite that simple.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, I just wish we had one more Gay-like option. I don’t consider Paschall to be that option. Who knows. Maybe he’ll lose 20 pounds, bust his *** and look great. But I doubt it. I’d love one more Gay-like dude so we could go: Mike-Don-Royce-?-Gay and not get killed on one end or the other for short stints.

To be clear, we’re over the apron and can not use any TPE’s now or in-season?

Paschall is probably as good as it gets as an in between option there... no way we make another addition of that type of guy. If we got a guy like Smart you add him to the lineup and they are solid.

We can use the TPE but if the player is a $5M player it costs us like $25M between the tax and salary... so better be damn good.

I'd love to have Darius Miller at the minimum. Not a great rebounder but a good enough defender and really good shooter. 5 out is less about defense and more about offense. Royce/Gay/Ingles or Bogey or Paschall with Mike and Donovan is really tough to guard... the other team likely has to go small too so rebounding isn't as big of an issue as rim protection.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

There is also the scenario where Whiteside is good and Gay is good one on one and the defense is actually okay when Gobert is off the court. You ramp down Bogey and Royce's minutes to get Gay on the floor for a few more minutes with Gobert and it works well.

When Rudy Gay and Poeltl shared the floor last year the defense was in the 97th percentile (or something like that per Locke). SA has some good perimeter defenders so I'd want to see who else was out there.

 

[Miggs]

Paschall is probably as good as it gets as an in between option there... no way we make another addition of that type of guy. If we got a guy like Smart you add him to the lineup and they are solid.

We can use the TPE but if the player is a $5M player it costs us like $25M between the tax and salary... so better be damn good.

I'd love to have Darius Miller at the minimum. Not a great rebounder but a good enough defender and really good shooter. 5 out is less about defense and more about offense. Royce/Gay/Ingles or Bogey or Paschall with Mike and Donovan is really tough to guard... the other team likely has to go small too so rebounding isn't as big of an issue as rim protection.

Yeah, true I guess. The Clips small ball on offense throttled us. We want to do the same. But I think the acquisition is more of one in response to our defensive woes vs the Clips. I guess I look at it as, Gobert is getting killed because he just can’t switch quickly enough, and going smaller helps alleviate that. Some anyway. Take him and Bogey out and get five athletic dudes out there. Obviously he was getting killed because Guy’s couldn’t stay in front of their man. Mike wasn’t playing much. Don was hurt. Bogey isn’t great. Anyway, I digress. To me, it won’t mean **** unless Donovan starts to defend. My fear is, he won’t realize this til his second team, and here, will just blame the supporting cast (in his mind), leave, become part of a super team, with a better leader there who demands defense (either in coach or player) and win it all. We coddle him too much. There needs to be someone in his ear, demanding this ****. The only player I see doing that is Mike but they seem like buddies so I don’t know. Hopefully Gay takes on a leadership role like this and can demand it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, true I guess. The Clips small ball on offense throttled us. We want to do the same. But I think the acquisition is more of one in response to our defensive woes vs the Clips. I guess I look at it as, Gobert is getting killed because he just can’t switch quickly enough, and going smaller helps alleviate that. Some anyway. Take him and Bogey out and get five athletic dudes out there. Obviously he was getting killed because Guy’s couldn’t stay in front of their man. Mike wasn’t playing much. Don was hurt. Bogey isn’t great. Anyway, I digress. To me, it won’t mean **** unless Donovan starts to defend. My fear is, he won’t realize this til his second team, and here, will just blame the supporting cast (in his mind), leave, become part of a super team, with a better leader there who demands defense (either in coach or player) and win it all. We coddle him too much. There needs to be someone in his ear, demanding this ****. The only player I see doing that is Mike but they seem like buddies so I don’t know. Hopefully Gay takes on a leadership role like this and can demand it.

The biggest issue imo was that both Mike and Donovan were really limited physically. If one of them was right then our fortunes change a bit. I agree Donovan needs to be better defensively. I think a swap of JC for a defensive piece also makes a meaningful difference. Niang was solid on defense last year during the regular season but couldn't keep up in the Clips series... I think Gay will help.

Paschall also said all the right things yesterday about shooting threes and said its been his focus even before the trade. I've got some hope there... someone said the rim protection numbers with him at 5 were okay.

Both guys are way better options than we have ever had for small ball lineups. So if Quin can't figure it out then he needs to go or we need a damn good assistant to come in and take over some of this stuff.

 

[infection]

There is also the scenario where Whiteside is good and Gay is good one on one and the defense is actually okay when Gobert is off the court. You ramp down Bogey and Royce's minutes to get Gay on the floor for a few more minutes with Gobert and it works well.

When Rudy Gay and Poeltl shared the floor last year the defense was in the 97th percentile (or something like that per Locke). SA has some good perimeter defenders so I'd want to see who else was out there.

This is what I believe Quin is looking at / hoping for, and honestly it's the same for me too. I don't think it's conclusive that small ball kills us. I think the way we've approached it has killed us. I think we're more equipped to handle it, but the bigger issue is being able to toggle between "filter everything to Rudy" and "you guys need to guard the perimeter" and let Rudy move to the perimeter. I've got some specific examples and games in mind where this can work that I'll detail, but I really question Quin's ability to do this, because that part of it ultimately doesn't fall on any personnel changes. It requires him to run a couple different defensive strategies.