LDS general conference - Fall 2013

[Stoked]

Islam also believes the Bible to be the word of God with similar qualifiers....
that doesn't make it a Christian faith

it also believes the Torah is the word of God, but that doesn't make it a Jewish faith - -
and most Jews believe the Old Testament portion of the Bible...

I think most monotheistic religions accept that the Bible to some extent is the word of God...
Someone can self-identify however they choose, that doesn't mean that others will see them the same way as they see themselves.

I guess this all depends on how you define Christian. For me it is a religion centered around the belief in Jesus Christ, that he is the son of God and that he died for our sins.

If so than the LDS denomination (now you can shut up Dala) is clearly Christian.

 

[Stoked]

I think the mormon population is often quoted way too high(including nonactive). I'm pretty sure they count a lot of people like myself that were baptised as children but I have never considered myself Mormon.

Yes they do.

 

[colton]

I know they're counting me because various bishops and counselors come by frequently to tell me that I'm on their roles and they want to see how I'm doing. I tell them I'm fine and please take me off your roles because I'm not a fan of organized religion. They have told me on several occasions that they will but apparently they don't know how. The last time I went to a Mormon church meeting (other than a sprinkling of occasions to support a family member who was leaving on a mission, getting baptized or something like that) was well over 30 years ago. I have lived in at least 10 different homes in three states and one province of Canada since that time yet they still keep finding me. Clearly someone is watching over me, God bless them.

If you really want to be removed from the church records, I believe all you have to do is notify your local bishop by writing. I'm not sure why they wouldn't have told you that on the phone.

 

[moevillini]

Yes.

Or... no. Yeah.

Are YOU a GOD?


(one of the best movie lines EVER!!!!)




OK, sorry about that, but I had to get that out of my system.


So, just to clarify - - is the point of all this back and forth discussion about "denomination vs. sect vs. Christianity vs. major religion" more related to how LDS sees itself or how the rest of the world sees it?



And another clarification - - are the words "religion" and "faith" interchangeable when discussing something like the "Mormon faith" or the "Mormon religion" or is one more the belief system and one more the structural operating system?

 

[Sneakers]

Faith is synonymous with religion is synonymous with belief, in that context "The Mormon xxxx"

 

[moevillini]

Faith is synonymous with religion is synonymous with belief, in that context "The Mormon xxxx"

not really, at least not in all contexts...

sometimes faith is more about the belief system while religion is more about the structural hierarchy and what-not

and in this discussion, I'm not entirely sure if the contexts are completely interchangeable

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

If you really want to be removed from the church records, I believe all you have to do is notify your local bishop by writing. I'm not sure why they wouldn't have told you that on the phone.

Experience has proven to me that you believe wrong.

 

[Stoked]

Experience has proven to me that you believe wrong.

That is how it is supposed to work. If it is not than that is a failing of that (those) bishops to take proper action on it.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Experience has proven to me that you believe wrong.

It should be the case. If you request to be removed in writing the Bishop is supposed to honor that request and send the proper paperwork with your letter to Church headquarters or something and have your name removed. I'm not 100% sure if there is more to it, but I don't believe there is. It is not up to the Bishop to decide "what is best for you" in his opinion in that case, it should be his duty to do as you have requested.

 

[Bronco70]

Experience has proven to me that you believe wrong.

That is how it is supposed to work. If it is not than that is a failing of that (those) bishops to take proper action on it.

Stoked is right - they are supposed to grant a request to be removed from the membership list. Theoretically, you should just have to ask and it will get done, but the folks in administrative callings can sometimes be lax in their vigor to do so. Make a formal written request, then continue follow up until you are give confirmation that it has been done. If you are persistent, they will comply (if for no other reason than to get you out of their ear). It may even be a pain in the ***, for a short period of time, but once your name is removed, you should stop getting visits every time a new bishop or EQP is called.

 

[Stoked]

Stoked is right - they are supposed to grant a request to be removed from the membership list. Theoretically, you should just have to ask and it will get done, but the folks in administrative callings can sometimes be lax in their vigor to do so. Make a formal written request, then continue follow up until you are give confirmation that it has been done. If you are persistent, they will comply (if for no other reason than to get you out of their ear). It may even be a pain in the ***, for a short period of time, but once your name is removed, you should stop getting visits every time a new bishop or EQP is called.

To be honest I am surprised that he still gets visits. I move and no one ever knows I am a member and I never get visited.

 

[♪alt13]

I know they're counting me because various bishops and counselors come by frequently to tell me that I'm on their roles and they want to see how I'm doing. I tell them I'm fine and please take me off your roles because I'm not a fan of organized religion. They have told me on several occasions that they will but apparently they don't know how. The last time I went to a Mormon church meeting (other than a sprinkling of occasions to support a family member who was leaving on a mission, getting baptized or something like that) was well over 30 years ago. I have lived in at least 10 different homes in three states and one province of Canada since that time yet they still keep finding me. Clearly someone is watching over me, God bless them.

Really nobody ever contacts me or comes to my door. Maybe I have an asterisk next to my name or something, but I don't have this problem.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

To be honest I am surprised that he still gets visits. I move and no one ever knows I am a member and I never get visited.

He probably has super helpful family or friends that pass on his new address or something? Not sure there.

 

[Sneakers]

not really, at least not in all contexts...

sometimes faith is more about the belief system while religion is more about the structural hierarchy and what-not

and in this discussion, I'm not entirely sure if the contexts are completely interchangeable

I thought you were asking, now you're telling? Why did you even ask in the first place.

And no ****, that's why I said in "that context", not in "all contexts". I'm telling you most lay-Mormons use those terms interchangeably.

 

[colton]

Experience has proven to me that you believe wrong.

That's too bad, and means someone's not doing things the way they are supposed to. The procedure is supposed to be: individual writes letter to bishop requesting name removal, bishop* contacts individual to make sure they are certain, then bishop removes name. At least, I assume the procedure hasn't changed since then. In my opinion bishops who don't follow that really give the church a black eye--and I've heard about other similar stories, so I'm sure that it happens. Why are they so intent on making it difficult for people to disassociate themselves from the church? It's not like Mormonism teaches your salvation will be any different based on whether you are still a church member in name only.


* If the individual is a Melchizedek priesthood holder, then I believe the stake president must also be involved.

 

[colton]

To be honest I am surprised that he still gets visits. I move and no one ever knows I am a member and I never get visited.

PM me your address and I can fix that.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

PM me your address and I can fix that.

Wish I could rep this. I'm sure it would make his day.

 

[Bronco70]

Wish I could rep this. I'm sure it would make his day.

I repped him. I'll sign the card from both of us.

 

[VINYLONE]

So what's really going on in this thread?

 

[Stoked]

So what's really going on in this thread?

Started with asking about specific confrence talks, went into the growth of the church and how to accurately, or best, determine active numbers. Then it went into how to define Mormonism; as a denomination or christianity, a new religion or both.