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Less Kanter = more wins?

D

doubledribble

Member
I noticed that without Enes the Jazz went on a winning streak and thought it was just a coincidence, so I ran the numbers for a season. The results surprised me:

Kanter plays 0-9 minitues = 9W, 4L (69% - on par with OKC and Denver)
Kanter plays 10-19 minitues = 24W, 22L (52%, which exactly matches the Jazz record)
Kanter plays 20+ minitues = 6W, 10L (38% - matches the record of Washington and Minnesota)

These numbers seem to suggest that the less time Enes spends on the court the better it is for the Jazz... I wonder if that is the reason why Corbin played Kanter the limited minutes this season?
 
Until you notice that the games that Kanter plays the mose minutes in are when were are already getting stomped. Those high minute games for Kanter consist of a high % of garbage minutes.
 
I guessed you missed the part that the Jazz are feeding on lotto teams (with the lone exception of Brooklyn who was playing their 3rd game in 4 night and was on the back end of a B2B with the other game the night before being in Denver, which is hard for even the elite teams) while Kanter has been out.
 
Stoked said:
Until you notice that the games that Kanter plays the mose minutes in are when were are already getting stomped. Those high minute games for Kanter consist of a high % of garbage minutes.
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Well, let's look at the sample of games when Kanter played more minutes because Millsap or Jefferson were out. There were 7 of them this season, Enes averaged 28 minutes in them and the Jazz went 3-4 (there were also 5 games when Millsap and Jefferson played, but Favors was out, but Kanter's minutes remained pretty much flat at 16, so I did not count them).

And in any case, this does not explain why the Jazz go on a tear when Kanter plays less then 10 minutes.
 
This season, Enes played most of his minutes in garbage time of the games that the Jazz were behind by a huge gap. This is an important disadvantage to comment on his effect on the team's success. I think he will put up big numbers from time to time. "It's just the Bobcats" idea doesn't sound right to me. After all it's a team full of NBA athletes and he performed great. So he will add Jazz's success big time when he starts. The 2nd reason Kanter's absence seems to benefit the Jazz is that 3 bigmen rotation looks like the best working rotation for the Jazz to get the best out of them. I don't think this will be reduced if Enes starts instead of Big Al or Millsap.
 
doubledribble said:
Well, let's look at the sample of games when Kanter played more minutes because Millsap or Jefferson were out. There were 7 of them this season, Enes averaged 28 minutes in them and the Jazz went 3-4 (there were also 5 games when Millsap and Jefferson played, but Favors was out, but Kanter's minutes remained pretty much flat at 16, so I did not count them).

And in any case, this does not explain why the Jazz go on a tear when Kanter plays less then 10 minutes.
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Don't you pay attention? Those 4 losses were all Corbin's fault. The Jazz would be 82-0 without him as coach.
 
orangello said:
I guessed you missed the part that the Jazz are feeding on lotto teams (with the lone exception of Brooklyn who was playing their 3rd game in 4 night and was on the back end of a B2B with the other game the night before being in Denver, which is hard for even the elite teams) while Kanter has been out.
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This seems to make sense. But again, if we look at 7 games when Kanter averaged 28 minutes because Jefferson or Millsap were out, the competition in those games was also quite mediocre: CLE, MIL, CHA, DET, TOR, NY, ATL. 4 games home, 3 on the road. However, the Jazz went 3-4, and in their only quality match-up (NY on the road) they imploded and fell behind by 30+ points.

Basically, it does not look to me that the numbers back up the often repeated claim that Kanter is the best player on the Jazz. And I like Kanter.
 
doubledribble said:
This seems to make sense. But again, if we look at 7 games when Kanter averaged 28 minutes because Jefferson or Millsap were out, the competition in those games was also quite mediocre: CLE, MIL, CHA, DET, TOR, NY, ATL. 4 games home, 3 on the road. However, the Jazz went 3-4, and in their only quality match-up (NY on the road) they imploded and fell behind by 30+ points.

Basically, it does not look to me that the numbers back up the often repeated claim that Kanter is the best player on the Jazz. And I like Kanter.
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See post #6. :)
 
doubledribble said:
This seems to make sense. But again, if we look at 7 games when Kanter averaged 28 minutes because Jefferson or Millsap were out, the competition in those games was also quite mediocre: CLE, MIL, CHA, DET, TOR, NY, ATL. 4 games home, 3 on the road. However, the Jazz went 3-4, and in their only quality match-up (NY on the road) they imploded and fell behind by 30+ points.

Basically, it does not look to me that the numbers back up the often repeated claim that Kanter is the best player on the Jazz. And I like Kanter.
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You're right. The Jazz have been a playoff team despite what Kanter brings to them.

Thanks to you I just had a mindfreak.
 
orangello said:
You're right. The Jazz have been a playoff team despite what Kanter brings to them.

Thanks to you I just had a mindfreak.
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criss-angel-mindfreak.jpg
 
It probably has a little to do with it, but not because Kanter sucks. Its because the rotation needs to be tightened down. Its stupid to run a 12 man rotation. That's why a trade was so necessary. But hey, Jazz management knows better than everyone else. Like always.
 
CAKAR said:
WTF

When Kanter left the game we were up by 2 points and when he checked back in, the team was trailing something like 38 points.
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Your memory does not serve you right. When Kanter left, the Jazz were -4, when he came back they were -23 and several minutes after they fell further to -30. After that the teams pretty much played it out, the game has been already decided. Kanter did not play terrible, but he, together with our other bigs missed the opportunity to pound the depleted Nicks frontcourt anchored by Camby and KMart.

Enes had 6 points and 6 rebounds in 25 minutes of action before he padded his stats a bit in the last minute of the game.
 
The original premise is kinda dumb. But I will say the extra time for Favors has done wonders. He's averaging a double/double and shooting well over 50% from the field since Kanter went down all while still playing the best defense on the team.
 
doubledribble said:
This seems to make sense. But again, if we look at 7 games when Kanter averaged 28 minutes because Jefferson or Millsap were out, the competition in those games was also quite mediocre: CLE, MIL, CHA, DET, TOR, NY, ATL. 4 games home, 3 on the road. However, the Jazz went 3-4, and in their only quality match-up (NY on the road) they imploded and fell behind by 30+ points.

Basically, it does not look to me that the numbers back up the often repeated claim that Kanter is the best player on the Jazz. And I like Kanter.
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1. Who was backing up Kanter in those games?

2. The biggest problem with your conclusion is that the Jazz for the season have been much better statistically with Kanter on the court than off. Unless he has some magical negative effect on the team when he's on the bench, your conclusion is, well, idiotic.
 
candrew said:
The original premise is kinda dumb. But I will say the extra time for Favors has done wonders. He's averaging a double/double and shooting well over 50% from the field since Kanter went down all while still playing the best defense on the team.
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Well it all comes down to the same thing. If Jazz want Favors and Kanter to be good, they'll have to open up rotation space for them and as much as I myself would hate to see Big Al and Millsap go, there is not another option to send one of them if they want this. I'm so happy for Favors. He deserves more minutes than anyone in the roster with that kind of defensive ability.
 
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