I'd say the worst mistake was letting Ty coach the Jazz for 2.5 years.. but that's just my opinion.
Letting Paul Millsap leave killed the Utah Jazz
- Thread starter Yell42
- Start date
framer
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'll go ahead and consider crowning them after they win a playoff series or two. Regular season in the East is almost an entirely different game than Playoff NBA basketball.
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
I have watched their games and they are really good but come playoff basketball, they'll lose in the second round...if they even make it out of the first round. I'll put up $1,000 that says they won't make it to the ECF. Care to put your money where your big mouth is?
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
I don't think the Hawks are some championship worthy team either. However, the top of the East is a mess and is wide open.
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Except they are beating the west teams, at home as well as on the road. Nobody is crowning them anything yet but dismissing them seems a little disingenuous. They've lost 2 games to the west this year and that happened during the first couple weeks of the season. They aren't just beating the east.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Yes, but hindsight. At one time, Ty was considered to be one of the best assistants in the league. I think Ty's problem is that he coached with one organization for too long. He wasn't exposed - as a coach - to a variety of ideas and systems. The Jazz had Sloan's way, which we all acknowledged had many, many flaws. You can't be stuck in the 80's/90's. Corbin, IMO, is good at maintaining the status quo. He can be a good coach in the right system, if that system is already in place and up and running with veterans.
Sticking even to the best assistant coach for so long without clear vision of what you want to achieve was a mistake.You don't push for playoffs with a rookie coach and then suddenly switch to rebuild under him just to have him effectively saying **** you in his last year by playing vets, impeding youth development and screwing draft pick.
Corbin was a massive FO blunder.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
If healthy, the Hawks are going to the ECF, but I'm not betting $1000 dollars on sports. Sorry. What else will make you sure of my convictions, sweetie? Or is money the only thing left between us?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
How did he screw the draft pick? I think his coaching actually HELPED lose us games. AS for "playing the vets," the only real issue I have is not playing the "core5" together so they could build chemistry...if the plan was to start them the next season. All of the players still got P/T. Enes averaged 27 minutes and Alec 28. Maybe a few more for each. And I do disagree on what happened with the Enes benching. It coincided EXACTLY with Burke being inserted as the starter. I think Kanter should have been given the chance to play with a real PG.
You can argue for making a coaching change sooner. But even with the horrible season, it took some convincing for Greg and Gail to let Corbin go. Ty had to hang himself by not doing what he was asked. PERPHAPS Utah could have finished with a worse record than Orlando. Jazz certainly were not going to be as bad as Milwaukee or Philadelphia (and Cleveland won the lottery). So Utah gets the #4 pick and takes: Dante Exum.
I was probably one of the few that questioned how he was just 'given' the job at the end of the year. He saw through the remainder of Jerry's year - I'm ok with that. But for the year after, instead of a thorough search for new candidates and having Ty be part of the process - they seemed to have simply 'given' him the extension without a proper interview process.
That's not what a shrewd decision - any decent business person would know that.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
I'm going to tread lightly here, but Charles Barkley has criticized the NBA for years for a lack of opportunity among in-house coaching candidates. I'm not saying that's why Corbin was hired, but it's possible that Utah wanted to show that they are willing to give opportunities to former players before going out and head hunting to bring in someone to be the boss of the guy who should be next in line. I think Phil following Jerry out the door caught them by surprise and put them in a difficult position.
..... except they let Hornacek go? He was in-house?
I don't have the facts of course, but I suspect it came down to Greg's buddy/buddy relationship with Ty that got Ty the extension.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
He wasn't next in line, so that would have been passing over Ty.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
He's some questions for the Millsap crowd:
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Say Utah retained Millsap, and now they have Favors, Sap and Rudy. Who starts?
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Say we keep Sap and never trade for Rudy because we were filling other needs. Worth it?
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Say Utah retained Millsap, and now they have Favors, Sap and Rudy. Who starts?
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Say we keep Sap and never trade for Rudy because we were filling other needs. Worth it?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Mid-year changes usually result in the assistant assuming the reins (e.g. Ty in Sacramento). Sure there is organizational loyalty when an opening arises. Ty had been an assistant since 2004. I think he was well-qualified to take over. Heck, I'm sure Budenholzer had been waiting for Pops to retire so he could assume the reins in San Antonio. But he finally had to leave. No one could have managed the team to the playoffs after the Sloan and Deron departures. Then came the strike-shortened season in which Utah made the playoffs. I think Ty did a credible job. He even did a decent job the following season getting the team to 43-39 (but missing the playoffs). Had KOC remained the GM, I'll bet Ty would still be the coach. But GM's usually get to choose their own HC and Dennis decided he wanted to go in a different direction. Ty with veterans: decent coach. Ty with young team: not so good.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Favors and Sap, which was never a great combination. Or is that Kanter and Sap?
We should be rejoicing that Gobert has developed because neither Favors nor Kanter is a decent starting center. Rumor has it that in the Burke/Gobert draft, the Jazz had their eyes on a big, but heard he'd be gone before they picked (which means it was either Adams or Olynyk). So it sounds like DL knew the answer at the 5 was not on the roster.
Twist my arm and right now I'd take Millsap and Gobert as my starters if I could choose any two. But Favors isn't far behind. And his age and recent play indicates he just may catch up by the end of the season or the next 1-2 years at most. As for Kanter, what's the harm in continuing to develop him? Seriously, who are we going to sign if we let him go? It only puts us about $8M under the cap...if we renounce our exceptions. I'd "trade" Kanter for Millsap or Matthews. And by that, I mean contacting either one to gauge their interest in signing with Utah as a FA. If one bites, then clear space by withdrawing the QO from Kanter, finding a buyer for Novak, etc. And if they don't? Then keep Kanter. Make a trade when his contract is seen as a bargain. Or if he comes back for just the QO, no problem...you can probably still get a late 1st from a contender in a trade.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
The Jazz decision to trade for Big Al was being talked about as the steal of the year (when it happened). May I say now that I am not and never have been a KOC fan. But acquiring Al Jefferson was exactly the kind of change the Jazz needed to make and nobody saw it coming. He re-invented himself while in Utah and established himself as one of the top reliable centers in the NBA. It was a great move. Letting him walk for nothing though??? Whether its in the past or not, its there and can't be ignored that it was dumb for business. You don't let a player like that just walk with nothing in return.
Good point... with Sap & Favors may be we never did that trade to get Rudy.
Favors is averaging what 16 and 9? He's getting near that All Star level. Rudy is a potential DPOY. Millsap is OK but he's on the decline. I'd rather have Rudy & Favors going forward.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
I'm not necessarily a part of the Millsap crowd, but you have to admit that he got it done night in and night out. I wouldn't have let him walk without receiving an asset out of him.