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Locke and DX Givony podcast

Here is Givony's defensive reel on Kanter. Not sure how much stock to put in it being a high school game. We don't know the score, his team could have been winning by 30 points and even in the NBA you see guys take plays off then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu96EoByub8

How does this NOT show an agenda with Givony? How can you take the opposite of a highlight reel and give it anymore credence than a highlight reel. I'm sure, if he wanted to, he could have put together a highlight reel that made Kanter look like a defensive monster.

From what I've seen, I'd call Kanter a slightly below average defender (not bad, just not an 'average' NBA PF/C). However, he does have the tools and desire and I believe he'll easily become average. He's a great scorer and an elite rebounder.
 
How does this NOT show an agenda with Givony? How can you take the opposite of a highlight reel and give it anymore credence than a highlight reel. I'm sure, if he wanted to, he could have put together a highlight reel that made Kanter look like a defensive monster.

From what I've seen, I'd call Kanter a slightly below average defender (not bad, just not an 'average' NBA PF/C). However, he does have the tools and desire and I believe he'll easily become average. He's a great scorer and an elite rebounder.

There are a couple highlights in that defensive reel too. Are you implying he left out some fabulous blocks or something? I doubt it.
 
To be honest, I probably just stopped watching too soon. I watched a couple minutes and, from what I saw, assumed the rest to be the same. My bad.
 
If we draft a big man i'd take Biyombo over Kanter in a heartbeat, just not at #3
This is what I keep coming back to. If KOC really is amazing at knowing who everyone else is drafting on draft night, he should know where Biyombo will go and trade with that team or swoop in beforehand (#7, Omri Casspi, future 1st [probably protected to some degree] or Whitesides).

There is no player I have anywhere near 100% confidence in. Biyombo probably comes in second after Irving for me and even he has plenty of ?s.
 
To be honest, I probably just stopped watching too soon. I watched a couple minutes and, from what I saw, assumed the rest to be the same. My bad.

LIke I said in a different thread, you are a homerist clown.
 
PMK just ignore Dwill. He is trying to push your buttons. I have enjoyed your contribution to the board and feel many of your posts are as objective as anyone else on this board. I certainly don't think you are a homer. Personally, high school video is worthless to me because the competition is so one sided. The kid didn't play all this year but he was coached by some former NBA players and a very good college coach. Kanter has dominated his age group international and has been on several teams radar for a while. He was a highly recruited kid so he has to have some talent. Besides the fact he is 19 years old so he has time to improve and get better.
 
PKM is one of my favorite posters on here and I've enjoyed his firsthand witness of Kanter at Kentucky. But Givony continues to stick to his guns on the Turk, ranking him below JV and Bismack as the top 3 big man prospects. This is his opinion and maybe he has an agenda. We've always known Kanter wasn't an elite defender but PKM's defense of him was less than inspiring:
I'd call Kanter a slightly below average defender (not bad, just not an 'average' NBA PF/C). However, he does have the tools and desire and I believe he'll easily become average.
So if he studies hard and really puts his mind to it he can easily become a C student? That's his ceiling IF he puts forth the effort? ...Color me deflated.

He's a great scorer and an elite rebounder.
Boozer. A taller version. This is good. Really good. But I don't know. I really hated Boozer, in spite of his strong offense and great rebounding. I'd kinda like some defense at the 5, y'know. I like Biyombo, sure. I like his motor and his blocks. But as unsexy as it sounds I think I might be leaning towards Valanciunas. He also has a motor. His wingspan is nearly as long as Biyombo's while his height is at least a couple more inches. The reason I probably give the edge to JV is his 90% FT%. All he has to do is get fouled and you've got 2 points. If there's a lockout JV can continue to improve with his Euro team.

I have a little more confidence in JV's offense than Biyombo's. I have a little more confidence in Biyombo's defence than JV's. But I like JV's FT% so you don't have to worry about a hack-a-bismack strategy.

I'm not as concerned about our big men hitting jumpers as much as being defensive anchors and getting rebounds. Draft Fredette @ 12 and let him hit the jumpers.

I think maybe the Jazz need more defense down low than another offensively gifted PF playing C.
 
A lot of people use the Boozer comparison for Kanter. That might be more accurate, but I'm hoping he's more like a Z-Bo. I don't think anyone has ever told Z-Bo to take out his tampon and D up, even though he's not an elite defender. This is because he gives you what he can and works his tail off. Boozer on the other hand plays defense like Jimmer, with no urgency whatsoever. From everything I've heard (minus Givony) Kanter seems like a worker so I'm sticking with him as #3 on my board. I still think that he and Favors would compliment each other perfectly with Kanter being the more offensive minded one, and Favors being the defensive enforcer, but with neither one being a pushover on the other end.
 
PKM is one of my favorite posters on here and I've enjoyed his firsthand witness of Kanter at Kentucky. But Givony continues to stick to his guns on the Turk, ranking him below JV and Bismack as the top 3 big man prospects. This is his opinion and maybe he has an agenda. We've always known Kanter wasn't an elite defender but PKM's defense of him was less than inspiring:

So if he studies hard and really puts his mind to it he can easily become a C student? That's his ceiling IF he puts forth the effort? ...Color me deflated.


Boozer. A taller version. This is good. Really good. But I don't know. I really hated Boozer, in spite of his strong offense and great rebounding. I'd kinda like some defense at the 5, y'know. I like Biyombo, sure. I like his motor and his blocks. But as unsexy as it sounds I think I might be leaning towards Valanciunas. He also has a motor. His wingspan is nearly as long as Biyombo's while his height is at least a couple more inches. The reason I probably give the edge to JV is his 90% FT%. All he has to do is get fouled and you've got 2 points. If there's a lockout JV can continue to improve with his Euro team.

I have a little more confidence in JV's offense than Biyombo's. I have a little more confidence in Biyombo's defence than JV's. But I like JV's FT% so you don't have to worry about a hack-a-bismack strategy.

I'm not as concerned about our big men hitting jumpers as much as being defensive anchors and getting rebounds. Draft Fredette @ 12 and let him hit the jumpers.

I think maybe the Jazz need more defense down low than another offensively gifted PF playing C.

If anything, I've toned down my enthusiasm of Kanter. I'm not liking the kid because he played for UK .. errr, wait. Anyway, he was one of the most impressive bigs I had seen at the college level in a very long time. I hated watching Boozer .. but not because he was a poor defensive player, but rather because he seemingly lacked the 'care to.' THAT is not Kanter, he plays very hard (that is a fact, regardless of any clips). He will not take a play off. I say he's a 'C' defensive player simply because he doesn't seem to get a lot of lift on his block attempts and other more minor items. That's not to say he won't get there. I'd still take him 3 in the draft no matter how many 3 year old clips I see. Haing said that, I am NOT a scout, just an ordinary fan.
 
Zach Randolph and Boozer are equally terrible defenders.

this is off the original topic, but a stat-head disagrees with you:

Defense is less straightforward, so we'll need to call in the ringers. We'll package together three of the most comprehensive defensive metrics in the public forum: opponent PER, which tells us the PER of a player's counterpart in the opposing lineup; defensive plus-minus, which tells us how the team defense improved with a player on the court; and Synergy Sports' defensive efficiency rating, which uses countless hours of scout video tracking to assess a player's defensive acumen. I combined the three ratings to come up with a rating that ranges from 1 to 100, in which 50 is average and 100 is the cream of the crop. That's the defensive component. Both are on a 100-point scale.

...

Zach Randolph -- Offense 94, Defense 65

...

Sure, he's not the best help defender out there, but while he's putting up 20 and 10 every night, all of the available defensive metrics consider him average or slightly above average on that end of the floor. The Grizzlies' defense is essentially unchanged when he leaves the court (allowing 106.6 points per 100 possessions with him on the floor and 106.5 points when he's on the bench), and when it comes to defending the post-up Synergy Sports places him in the top-third in the league in defensive efficiency. He's easily a top-20 player in the league, and now he's getting paid like it.

...

Carlos Boozer -- Offense 84, Defense 26

https://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=haberstroh_tom&id=6436240
 
Here is Givony's defensive reel on Kanter. Not sure how much stock to put in it being a high school game. We don't know the score, his team could have been winning by 30 points and even in the NBA you see guys take plays off then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu96EoByub8

Ok, comments below:

Defense

We're not going to pretend that we'll draft Kanter for his defensive abilities. We already have Favors for that.

Neither would you draft Nowitzki, Boozer, Gasol, etc for their defensive abilities either.

Effort

Correct me if I'm wrong, he has just arrived in a foreign land with little to no English?

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but at this stage Kanter is looking to join college ball, and NBA after that. He would have thought that he would have a lot more games to showcase his talent. I don't think anyone would be willing to risk any injuries just playing these High School games.

Comments?
 
Ok, comments below:

Defense

We're not going to pretend that we'll draft Kanter for his defensive abilities. We already have Favors for that.

Neither would you draft Nowitzki, Boozer, Gasol, etc for their defensive abilities either.

Effort

Correct me if I'm wrong, he has just arrived in a foreign land with little to no English?

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but at this stage Kanter is looking to join college ball, and NBA after that. He would have thought that he would have a lot more games to showcase his talent. I don't think anyone would be willing to risk any injuries just playing these High School games.

Comments?

Injuries factor into it and so does the environment I think. Looked like there might have been 20 people in attendance. Givony says he doesn't have the work ethic, but it takes a huge commitment to come into camp as the best conditioned big man, breaking endurance tests.
 
Comments?
Yeah, you care or you don't. He didn't, and now everyone's supposed to just assume that he does now? Not everyone can be a great defender, but everyone can care, or even PRETEND to care. The clips in that video are literally some of the worst defense I've ever seen. Dude didn't (doesn't?) care. AT. ALL. Not even enough to pretend.
 
Yeah, you care or you don't. He didn't, and now everyone's supposed to just assume that he does now? Not everyone can be a great defender, but everyone can care, or even PRETEND to care. The clips in that video are literally some of the worst defense I've ever seen. Dude didn't (doesn't?) care. AT. ALL. Not even enough to pretend.

I think it just shows his character. I mean, of course he is going to try harder than those HS days, but I think we know now that he isn't one of those guys who is going to give it his all no matter what. He isn't a guy who has his motor running full blast all the time.
 
I think it just shows his character. I mean, of course he is going to try harder than those HS days, but I think we know now that he isn't one of those guys who is going to give it his all no matter what. He isn't a guy who has his motor running full blast all the time.

That kind of mentality is poison. In an ideal draft, you're going to have a crazy competitor AND a good talent at #3. This draft? Just a bunch of question marks. Knight is the closest thing I guess.
 
I have a little more confidence in JV's offense than Biyombo's. I have a little more confidence in Biyombo's defence than JV's. But I like JV's FT% so you don't have to worry about a hack-a-bismack strategy.
The thing about JV is he is not known as a defensive monster as well.
 
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