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Locke's Tone: Tank on The Horizon?

Saint Cy of JFC said:
Whitmore and the twins in Overtime Elite. This draft is going to be one of the most athletic of all time potentially.
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Definitely. Everyone is focused on Victor but there are a lot of good prospects that fit the mold of what you want in either a modern PG or wing.
 
IMO, a full-blown tank job is the smartest thing we can do right now. We're in cap jail paying a very mediocre team, princess Donovan is a problem and #27 deserves better than what we'll be able to give him in his remaining prime years.

I would feel great about flipping both for a haul of picks and the right expiring deals.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Doesn't help you save money if you just plan on tanking tho
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IF you are tanking and IF you get under the tax in those moves (which he could). At very least it costs like $1M in that scenario and you don't look like a broke boy... you can sell the other moves and just a pivot and not us reducing salary... said in Locke's voice "there is zero part of this that has to do with money... Ryan paid MILLIONS for a chance to draft a guy that likely never helps... get out of here with that ****... this podcast is brought to you by dick pills - do you have problems in the sack"
 
We keep acting like this money is coming straight out of Ryan's personal checkbook. It isn't. Many businesses incur expenses like this, penalties or fines or whatever, or just regular operating costs. If we install a ton of racking in a warehouse for a customer for $1.5 million, we might run at a balance sheet loss for 18 months to recoup the investment. If the Jazz incur a 30mill penalty then that just comes off the bottom line, and maybe pushes them closer to running at break even. I seriously doubt that even pushes them into the red. I get they want to run at the highest profit possible, but this has very little to do with Ryan being too poor to pay the penalty and everything to do with them running this as a, well you know, business. Like it is. They just do not want to run the risk of not making a profit. My bet is it would require a hell of a lot more than $30 mill in penalties to push them into a straight up loss anyway.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
NBA teams are cash cows. We don't even know the true extent of how much, but you can guarantee it's more than they let on with how much these teams sell for.
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Part of it is the huge tax write off they get on the initial purchase... but yes the paper losses the owners throw out are less than genuine. I do think there may be some negative cash flow at times for owners in the tax in markets like ours. Ryan has always been in the tax as an owner so he may have had to float some of the loss.

The minority owners he has are flushed with cash though... should he have real issues those guys likely get a call.
 
LogGrad98 said:
We keep acting like this money is coming straight out of Ryan's personal checkbook. It isn't. Many businesses incur expenses like this, penalties or fines or whatever, or just regular operating costs. If we install a ton of racking in a warehouse for a customer for $1.5 million, we might run at a balance sheet loss for 18 months to recoup the investment. If the Jazz incur a 30mill penalty then that just comes off the bottom line, and maybe pushes them closer to running at break even. I seriously doubt that even pushes them into the red. I get they want to run at the highest profit possible, but this has very little to do with Ryan being too poor to pay the penalty and everything to do with them running this as a, well you know, business. Like it is. They just do not want to run the risk of not making a profit. My bet is it would require a hell of a lot more than $30 mill in penalties to push them into a straight up loss anyway.
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There is cash flow and there is taxable income. The owners get to amortize the purchase price of the franchise for tax purposes which is completely crazy imo. Real estate investors have a similar business model where the rental net cash flow may be positive... but taxable income from operations is actually a loss. You can't depreciate land because its an appreciating asset... The purchase price for a sports franchise should be in the same bucket but it is not. So he insulates other income with this tax loss.

The cash flow may be close to even... with the tax and salary. Cutting that loss by 30-40M makes it so you have less strain on any line of credit or other stuff.

You may see this in our coaching search... "we want the hot young assistant coach... the next Quin!" but the reality is those guys come with a much lower price tag than an established guy.
 
I also don't think a tank is on the horizon.. though Locke mentioning the possibility of moving Donovan or deciding it is time has been a bit of a turn. If we have decided that Rudy can't get us much win now value then maybe that changed our thinking a bit.

I think my current offseason possibilities are:

- 40% we keep Rudy and Donovan... and Conley/Bogey. So a run it back... at least until the trade deadline... partially forced by our players not having great trade value at the moment.

- 23% trade Rudy

- 35% trade Bogey/Mike/Royce/JC for something different in a pretty meh trade but at least you can say you shook things up.

- 2% full scale rebuild... though this may be in part this summer and then completed at the trade deadline. So a Rudy trade that is forward facing this offseason followed by a Donovan and whatever is left trades at the deadline.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I also don't think a tank is on the horizon.. though Locke mentioning the possibility of moving Donovan or deciding it is time has been a bit of a turn. If we have decided that Rudy can't get us much win now value then maybe that changed our thinking a bit.

I think my current offseason possibilities are:

- 40% we keep Rudy and Donovan... and Conley/Bogey. So a run it back... at least until the trade deadline... partially forced by our players not having great trade value at the moment.

- 23% trade Rudy

- 35% trade Bogey/Mike/Royce/JC for something different in a pretty meh trade but at least you can say you shook things up.

- 2% full scale rebuild... though this may be in part this summer and then completed at the trade deadline. So a Rudy trade that is forward facing this offseason followed by a Donovan and whatever is left trades at the deadline.
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I don't mind keeping Don and Rudy but we have to make major shifts everywhere else.
 
Earlier in the offseason, Locke kept mentioning keeping both Don and Rudy and going all in on finding a third guy to pair with them, even if you have to give up another future first round pick to do so. Then if things don't go well this season you blow it all up next offseason and just trade everybody for picks.... with the all-star game being in Utah this year, I'm inclined to think this is the route they will take
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I also don't think a tank is on the horizon.. though Locke mentioning the possibility of moving Donovan or deciding it is time has been a bit of a turn. If we have decided that Rudy can't get us much win now value then maybe that changed our thinking a bit.

I think my current offseason possibilities are:

- 40% we keep Rudy and Donovan... and Conley/Bogey. So a run it back... at least until the trade deadline... partially forced by our players not having great trade value at the moment.

- 23% trade Rudy

- 35% trade Bogey/Mike/Royce/JC for something different in a pretty meh trade but at least you can say you shook things up.

- 2% full scale rebuild... though this may be in part this summer and then completed at the trade deadline. So a Rudy trade that is forward facing this offseason followed by a Donovan and whatever is left trades at the deadline.
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Typically the selling team gets more value at the trade deadline vs offseason. I'm wondering if that is offset by keeping good players longer resulting in a better record/worse pick?
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Typically the selling team gets more value at the trade deadline vs offseason. I'm wondering if that is offset by keeping good players longer resulting in a better record/worse pick?
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I don't think so because I can't really remember a good team that was making a playoff push decide to blow it up and sell guys off at the deadline.
 
Jingled said:
Earlier in the offseason, Locke kept mentioning keeping both Don and Rudy and going all in on finding a third guy to pair with them, even if you have to give up another future first round pick to do so. Then if things don't go well this season you blow it all up next offseason and just trade everybody for picks.... with the all-star game being in Utah this year, I'm inclined to think this is the route they will take
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The only concern I'd have with that is we already lack depth so if we give up multiple players for one guy we'd have basically no depth and would still be in a bad spot financially. The only player that seems obtainable that fits that mold to me is Tobias Harris.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Typically the selling team gets more value at the trade deadline vs offseason. I'm wondering if that is offset by keeping good players longer resulting in a better record/worse pick?
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It depends on how early they sell... it also depends on how the season starts... sometimes a slow start is what determines a sell off.

I think the pg market is kind of wonky right now and has so many dominos. The one trade player that is easiest to do is Mike out for wing x. If you trade Bogey I think you still need another trade.

The pg market... Brogdon was rumored to NY or Wash.... NY likely gets Brunson. Dallas doesn't need a replacement pg. Washington may get Tyus Jones... might prefer Brogdon to Mike... Clips just got Wall. So then does a spot open up for Mike to return to Memphis? as a backup maybe?

Deangelo Russell is also out there... so is Dejounte Murray. The PG position I think has the most dominoes so maybe in season a team realizes a need and you wish you hadn't sold off a guy like Mike just to shake things up.
 
YoungJefe said:
The only concern I'd have with that is we already lack depth so if we give up multiple players for one guy we'd have basically no depth and would still be in a bad spot financially. The only player that seems obtainable that fits that mold to me is Tobias Harris.
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Yeah, Tobias is a guy that Locke has mentioned a lot. I personally think a big 3 of Rudy/Don/Tobias would be destined to fail in the playoffs just like the Jazz have the last 6 years. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Jazz go that route though.
 
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Jingled said:
Earlier in the offseason, Locke kept mentioning keeping both Don and Rudy and going all in on finding a third guy to pair with them, even if you have to give up another future first round pick to do so. Then if things don't go well this season you blow it all up next offseason and just trade everybody for picks.... with the all-star game being in Utah this year, I'm inclined to think this is the route they will take
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His tone has changed a bit, but I agree this was likely Plan A. I think we shopped the **** out of our guys at the trade deadline last year and the draft and found that it may be time for Plan B... seeing what the trade return is currently on Rudy may have pushed us to Plan C...
 
Jingled said:
Yeah, Tobias is a guy that Locke has mentioned a lot. I personally think a big 3 of Rudy/Don/Tobias would be destined to fail in the playoffs just like the Jazz have the last 6 years. I wanted be shocked to see the Jazz go that route though.
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Tobias likely plays a little better here as he is good in pick and roll. He'd help our ****** vibes as hes a good dude. We still likely fail.
 
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