Locke's Tone: Tank on The Horizon?

[LoPo]

The Warriors tanking really didn't play a huge role in their bounce back, literally 0 players in their playoff rotation were guys they drafted with early picks...

The Golden State Warriors don't win their first title without Harrison Barnes. They clearly tanked hard for Harrison Barnes which actually came at our expense. They were a middle 3rd team then sat everybody down the stretch so they could get the #7 pick. I'm pretty sure if they would have ended up with the #8 pick, it would have gone to us.

 

[LoPo]

The Warriors tanking really didn't play a huge role in their bounce back, literally 0 players in their playoff rotation were guys they drafted with early picks...

Former Warriors executive: Golden State tanked to get Harrison Barnes

Hawks GM Travis Schlenk gives perfect illustration of NBA's real tanking problem

nba.nbcsports.com

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Golden State Warriors don't win their first title without Harrison Barnes. They clearly tanked hard for Harrison Barnes which actually came at our expense. They were a middle 3rd team then sat everybody down the stretch so they could get the #7 pick. I'm pretty sure if they would have ended up with the #8 pick, it would have gone to us.

Not only that... they traded a healthy Monta Ellis for an injured Bogut to further the depths of their suckiness that year... Bogut was critical... not a full tank move but not a move teams that were trying to win that year would have made.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

tobias doesn't move the needle. if he's better than bogey, it's only marginal and he just isn't a difference maker.

He's better at different things that could help the team. Bogey is just a huge negative as a passer. I think Harris would have fit Utah really well in their passing days, maybe not as much anymore.

 

[LoPo]

Not only that... they traded a healthy Monta Ellis for an injured Bogut to further the depths of their suckiness that year... Bogut was critical... not a full tank move but not a move teams that were trying to win that year would have made.

Yep. What they did was so incredibly smart and paid off huge the next few seasons.

 

[slc]

Not only that... they traded a healthy Monta Ellis for an injured Bogut to further the depths of their suckiness that year... Bogut was critical... not a full tank move but not a move teams that were trying to win that year would have made.

Wow Imagine if GSW decided to trade Curry instead of Ellis
There was some debate about that
Is Ellis still even in league?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Wow Imagine if GSW decided to trade Curry instead of Ellis
There was some debate about that
Is Ellis still even in league?

What league? I'm sure he still hits up the drew league or something.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

A team ultimately needs to have three stars to go all the way. A small-market team needs to draft at least two of them and then have enough assets left over to trade for a third. Even better if the SM team can draft all three like the Warriors did and the Thunder did originally.

This is why the Jazz really couldn't afford to lose Gordon Hayward the way they did. That basically killed this iteration of the Jazz.

I think it's more nuanced than that. You don't need 3 stars.

Teams just don't have big windows to win anymore unless you are a team with a huge budget who drafted well. Utah made valiant efforts but injuries ****ed them hard every year. They wasted assets on guys like Tony Bradley and Udoka and wasted assets to get off players like Favors and Davis.

The Jazz had the core pieces to win. Hell even with all their **** ups they could have still won if not for injuries. There is no one move that killed this team.

If they would have used their assets better they could probably do a more meaningful retool, but ultimately ownership wouldn't be able to afford the team long term most likely if they did everything right and injuries would have still prevented them from winning a ring. And Mitchell would still most likely leave at the end of his 2nd deal.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also the Jazz underachieving year after year relative to expectations due to injuries has depreciated all their assets in a very unfortunate way.

 

[cowhide]

The real problem after wasting their assets was they never addressed the elephant in the room. Getting more size and athletic players who can create their own shots on the wing. I agree the way the CBA is now the window to win is even smaller. Golden State is doing a good job with getting young players to develop so when their core ages out they will be ready to go, they also have an owner who is willing to pay the luxury tax to win.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also the Jazz underachieving year after year relative to expectations due to injuries has depreciated all their assets in a very unfortunate way.

Maybe... the issue is we are trying to trade like for like. Hey I'll trade you a good player now for a different kind of good player. Like trying to do a car swap... except we are trading older SUVs and trying to get an electric car that everyone is after. Its much easier to just trade the car for cash and get appropriate value.

If you were just trying to get picks I think you could net 3-4 picks for Bogey, Mike, Royce if you didn't care about the expiring salary you take back.

I know I am preaching to the choir on this but its why a tear down is more profitable today than in 1 year.

 

[LoPo]

Also the Jazz underachieving year after year relative to expectations due to injuries has depreciated all their assets in a very unfortunate way.

The main reason we don't have value is because their contracts are bad value:

Conley overpaid
Royce overpaid
Gay overpaid
Gobert overpaid
Bojan expiring

We only have one player who has lost any value due to injuries and that's Conley. But if he was paid correctly, injuries wouldn't be an issue.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The main reason we don't have value is because their contracts are bad value:

Conley overpaid
Royce overpaid
Gay overpaid
Gobert overpaid
Bojan expiring

We only have one player who has lost any value due to injuries and that's Conley. But if he was paid correctly, injuries wouldn't be an issue.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

I think its just we are trying to trade vet for vet and get an upgrade. Trades just don't work that way.

Take CJ McCollum... he was rumored in various trades for a while, but until they decided to trade him for expirings and draft picks it never materialized.

I think Conley is partly a position thing right now. If we wanted to get a pick and some cap relief for Royce we could in a second. If we wanted to move Bogey for similar salary and a first we could... but all of those deals will mean we are likely less good next year... and we supposedly find that unacceptable.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The main reason we don't have value is because their contracts are bad value:

Conley overpaid
Royce overpaid
Gay overpaid
Gobert overpaid
Bojan expiring

We only have one player who has lost any value due to injuries and that's Conley. But if he was paid correctly, injuries wouldn't be an issue.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

You are an asbolute clown if you dont think that injuries, which have been the main contributor to the Jazz losing series, hasnt resulted in the Jazz assets value being lowered.

I'm not saying the specific injuries to the specific players caused the value to lower, it's the injuries that caused the Jazz to lose series, which prevented them going further in the playoffs, which results in lower of value. Dont be a fool.

 

[outerspacefan]

<...> I think any Jazz fan that’s 100% honest with themselves thinks the same thing. I love Don and I love Rudy, but I just can’t picture any scenario in which we choose one or the other and go on to compete for a title. <...>

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Cptgrnlngs22]

The Jazz have put Rudy out there and nobody wants to pay the cover price the Jazz are asking. At this point they really need to take a hard look at what we have and the realization should be that if are to make any kind of turn around in the future we need to trade Mitchell. I still would love a Mitchell to Orlando trade. I want Wagner for the Jazz.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz

 

[LoPo]

You are an asbolute clown if you dont think that injuries, which have been the main contributor to the Jazz losing series, hasnt resulted in the Jazz assets value being lowered.

I'm not saying the specific injuries to the specific players caused the value to lower, it's the injuries that caused the Jazz to lose series, which prevented them going further in the playoffs, which results in lower of value. Dont be a fool.

Injuries hurt our chances to win series in 2020 and 2021.

Injuries are irrelevant with regards to our players having weak value right now. The value is low because their contracts are bad.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[gomretat]

We traded our 2024 1st to dump Favors and our 2021 1st to save money.

Indeed. And have made other decisions that made it clear that getting out of the luxury tax was not the priority. We have clearly made decisions financially motivated but not shied from the tax. I am not sure we will at this point either but it wouldn't surprise me.