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Lockout!!!

I would gladly lose money (assuming I am a billionaire with a healthy income of money elsewhere, which I assume most owners are) too own a team. I assume at least a handful of owners are huge sports fans (Mark Cuban a good example) probably feel the same way.
 
//r00t 4 Jazz said:
Hey GVC I'm not trying to argue with you and just asking a question here and you may have answered it already with your lil' spat with Solmo and I missed it.... but. Did I read you correctly when you said the NBA owners had one of the best CBA's in pro sports, if I'm not mistaken it is one of the worst in that 57% of all revenue goes to the players, that is all no real issues just that questions.
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We're both right here. Yes, 57% is high, but the 45% (or thereabouts) the owners are asking for is ridiculously low. If the owners were willing to bring better revenue sharing models to the table for these negotiations, I imagine it would all be settled in short order. Unfortunately, they're asking for the players to give up more money so that the Lakers, Knicks, etc. will be swimming in dough, while the teams with the worst management in the biggest backwaters will still be in the black every year. The owners are asking for everything.

Now, that's their right, and I have no problem with it, but if I have to pin blame on one side or the other if there's no season, I'll pick the owners (as of right now, despite not understanding why the players are so wed to the current soft cap the NBA has...have they given up on revenue sharing in favor of this seemingly irrelevant detail?).
 
I get the argument that a lot of people (NBPA especially) are making saying, "it can't be that bad if people are currently buying franchises," but people tend to forget that for everyone that buys a team, there's someone else selling a team. People don't usually sell cash cows.
 
margodydek said:
So there's no coincidence to the fact that a half dozen owners wanted to sell their teams within a few-years span? And throw in New Orleans as well who couldn't even find a buyer.
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And if the owners don't get a good deal out of this CBA the worth of their teams, especially if they continue to lose money, will most likely go down.

I watch basketball to see the players play, so I think they should get a good chunk of the pie, but the teams have to make money, end of story. The NBA is a business, not a charitable foundation set up to make sure skilled players become multi-millionaires.
 
Gameface said:
And if the owners don't get a good deal out of this CBA the worth of their teams, especially if they continue to lose money, will most likely go down.

I watch basketball to see the players play, so I think they should get a good chunk of the pie, but the teams have to make money, end of story. The NBA is a business, not a charitable foundation set up to make sure skilled players become multi-millionaires.
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It's more than just players. It helps local and national economy.
 
Sure, and they've got a product that sells. I don't know how much the NBA pulls in in gross revenue, I just know that it's enough money to make all the owners and players a lot of money. Certainly enough money to motivate billionaires to want to own teams and young kids to play competitive basketball in hopes of making it to the NBA. The question seems to be if the owners will be allowed by the players to have a very healthy profit-margin or if the players will force the owners to run the very serious risk of losing money on their teams.

Again, the players aren't chumps in this. They are the NBA. They have worked and competed their whole lives to develop the skills needed to play in the NBA. What the average NBA player can do is remarkable, what the stars can do is awe inspiring. The players, with their skill and competitive drive, are what captivate me and make me willing to spend good money to watch them play. They deserve a lot of the money to be had. They should fight to get their fair share, and they should drive a hard bargain, but if they hold the league hostage asking for so much that it isn't even worth it to the owners to have a season then maybe it's time for them to take a step back and realize they make millions of dollars playing basketball. Life really isn't all that bad.
 
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"good faith"

GVC said:
The owners are not negotiating in good faith
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What have the owners done that is dishonest or insincere? Seems that they have a position and that they are sticking to. You may disagree with this without it being in bad faith
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
I would gladly lose money (assuming I am a billionaire with a healthy income of money elsewhere, which I assume most owners are) too own a team. I assume at least a handful of owners are huge sports fans (Mark Cuban a good example) probably feel the same way.
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mark cuban is the ONLY one
 
DutchJazzer said:
mark cuban is the ONLY one
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And even though Cuban would probably gladly lose $ to win more championships, he's just as on board as the rest of the owners. Even the big market guys (Buss, Dolan) are with the other owners. Would they prefer to have it similar to MLB where they could outspend everyone? Sure, but they understand that they need to be unified to achieve what they perceive to be the greater good.

From a negotiation stand-point, I think the owners have played this thing perfectly. Besides Jordan, you don't see or hear any owners talking to the media about the lockout, which shows that they're not nervous and they're willing to wait until the players cave. On the other hand, from recent interviews with players you can start to see that they're worried and they're realizing that they really have no leverage. They don't want to be bullied and look weak, but deep down I think they all know that they're fighting a losing battle and it would be in their best interest to give in now, rather than wait for a worse offer from the owners.
 
margodydek said:
From a negotiation stand-point, I think the owners have played this thing perfectly. Besides Jordan, you don't see or hear any owners talking to the media about the lockout, which shows that they're not nervous and they're willing to wait until the players cave.
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Or it shows that they don't want to be fined $100,000 and fall into the bad graces of Emperor Stern.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Or it shows that they don't want to be fined $100,000 and fall into the bad graces of Emperor Stern.
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That's a great point. I guess I should say that Stern has played this well. BTW, something that's started to bug me with the league is if I'm not mistaken don't the fines that get paid go to some charity? That's great and all, but couldn't they have had some forsight with this and built some sort of account so that when this lockout hit, they could save people's jobs? Anyways, just two extra cents I wanted to throw in there.
 
Something the owners should seriously consider when this is over is whether or not keeping Emperor David is a good thing for them. Stern had some great ideas 20+ years ago while he was holding on to the coattails of Magic, Larry, and Michael. Since then, he seems to be more concerned about the league going global than producing a good product. And he does work for the owners, not the other way around. After that, the owners should shift their focus to bad franchises, bad locations, and other bad owners and rid themselves of the dead weight. Contract 4 teams, and the 60 ****ty players who don't belong in the league, move a couple others, and force owners to put competitive products on the floor rather than going for profits. Yeah, the last idea is good in theory, but hard to enforce, but there's got to be a way to get Donald Sterling out of the league.
 
Derek Fisher's Letter to NBA Players. Copied from SI.com

https://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/09/15/derek.fisher.letter/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a6&eref=sihp


LAS VEGAS -- Derek Fisher is determined to make the NBA players meeting productive instead of divisive.
With about 70 players expected to meet here on Thursday, the National Basketball Players' Association president sent an impassioned email to his colleagues. The letter, obtained by SI.com from a player and published in full below, criticizes agents who have been calling for the decertification of the union and asks players to remain supportive of its efforts.
It's the second deliberate and creative wrinkle Fisher has added to the meeting. As reported Wednesday night by SI.com, NFLPA head DeMaurice Smith will be speaking at the session after accepting an invitation from the Lakers' guard.
***
To Each & Every Player,
After the latest round of meetings, I thought it would be best to update you personally as to where the leadership of the National Basketball Players Association stands, where the negotiations stand where we are headed and the reasons why.
Without a doubt, someone will be leaking this. I know it. The moment you read this you will know it. So, I say all with the fullest transparency.
I was elected as your President. By you. For you. I take great pride and am honored to serve the over 400 members of our association. I and our Executive Committee take this job and this role seriously and will not agree to an unfair deal on behalf of you and our players. Period.
I'm not looking out just for the marquee guy, I'm looking out for the guy that dreams of being a professional basketball player and gets a minimum deal. I'm not just trying to protect the guy on a team in a huge market. I'm protecting the player that is in a small market with incredibly loyal fans.
I've made it clear, I want to play. You have each made it clear, you want to play. The fans have been unwavering, they want their basketball. The thousand of employees that work in the arenas, the ticket offices, the concession stands, they want a season. We all want to go back to work.
The league and the team owners have locked us out. This was not our choice. Our employers decided to stop allowing us to do our jobs.
My job since July 1st is to find a solution. To find an outcome that protects each of you and your livelihoods and continues to allow us to play the game we love so much and the fans love supporting.
Since before the lockout began, I have spent hours upon hours, days, months, years, working on preparing you, the fans and the media about the possibilities. Now as the lockout has set in, reality of the situation is here.
The most recent meetings in New York were effective. What you have been told by your agents, representatives and the media is probably speculative and inaccurate.
What actually happened in those meetings was discussion, brainstorming and a sharing of options by both sides. The turning point this past Tuesday was not a disagreement between the players and the owners. It was actually a fundamental divide between the owners internally. They could not agree with each other on specific points of the deal and therefore it caused conflict within the league and its owners.
So it is our hope that today, Thursday, at the owners meeting in Dallas that they work out their differences, come up with a revenue sharing plan that will protect their teams and are then ready to come together and sign off on the agreement we as a smaller group deemed reasonable.
Decertification seems to be a hot button issue today in the media. So I'd like to address it. I've read yesterday's stories and find the position of these agents interesting. I have made myself available to each and every agent. But not once have I heard from them. If they are so concerned about the direction of the union, then why have they not contacted me? Each and every one of them mentioned has been in meetings with me. I've answered their questions, I've been told they support you, their players and our Players Association. So if there is a genuine concern, a suggestion, a question, call me. Email me. Text me. I'm working tirelessly each and every day on behalf of the over 400 players that they represent. Working for nothing but the best interests of THEIR guys. I don't make a commission, I don't make a salary for serving as President. I have NO ulterior motives. None.
It is because they have not come to me once that I question their motives.
I work every day on these negotiations. I work so that each player from Blake Griffin to Tyler Hansbrough, Pau Gasol to De'Andre Jordan, Dwight Howard to Jrue Holiday, Taj Gibson to Danny Granger, Steve Nash to Luke Babbit and every single player get a fair and reasonable deal. Not just for this year, not just for next year but for years to come. So that the league that WE the players largely helped build, continues to grow and thrive.
So to address the agents that have decided to say their piece yesterday, I don't mind. Perhaps they are trying to make news. Perhaps they just want to show you, their clients, they are working hard. But what would be appreciated by the 400+ players would be the support of our agents and constructive ideas, suggestions and solutions that are in our best interests. Not the push for a drastic move that leaves their players without a union, without pensions, without health care. We just aren't there.
I will remain committed to finding resolution to this because I know how important this is. I ask you to remain united with me and your over 400 allies, friends, brothers and colleagues. We are a powerful group if we remain united and focused on the task at hand.
I urge every single one of you to call me, text me, email me with anything. An idea, a suggestion, a concern, a question. I represent you. I work for you.
So to each player, each fan, each agent, each media member who ends up reading this...I stand behind this message. It comes from me, a 15 year veteran of basketball, the game I dreamt of playing as a kid, the game I love so much. I'm a teammate, I'm a father, I'm a son, I'm a husband, I'm a brother, but right now, the role I must work so hard to honor is the one as PA President. And I ask each of you to stand with me, stand by me and urge the league and the owners to come together and allow the game of basketball to continue to grow and thrive. We're ready.
Sincerely,
Derek


Read more: https://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2.../derek.fisher.letter/index.html#ixzz1Y4LsykOT
 
Why are Jazz fans against the owners in all if this? I would be happy to wait a few years of no basketball if it meant a hard cap to level the playing field out there. If there was one thing I was sick of watching this year was all nba players making a joke of the game. Instead of basketball it was all about the big markets and the money. Now they have their stupid t-shirts to go with their pride. If they don't fix the problem now then you can pretty much kiss the Jazz chances of winning any title soon goodbye. People on here sit and talk about how the owners should cough of the money like it was candy just so we can have a season. If you are a Jazz fan you want a hard cap because frankly the Jazz are not in a market where people want to be and the they also don't have that kind of money to throw out. I want to see teams like the thunder and cavs get a title instead of watching the lakers and heat ever year. Shouldn't be about the big markets and owners who have more money. It should be about the game.
 
shadler said:
Why are Jazz fans against the owners in all if this? I would be happy to wait a few years of no basketball if it meant a hard cap to level the playing field out there. If there was one thing I was sick of watching this year was all nba players making a joke of the game. Instead of basketball it was all about the big markets and the money. Now they have their stupid t-shirts to go with their pride. If they don't fix the problem now then you can pretty much kiss the Jazz chances of winning any title soon goodbye. People on here sit and talk about how the owners should cough of the money like it was candy just so we can have a season. If you are a Jazz fan you want a hard cap because frankly the Jazz are not in a market where people want to be and the they also don't have that kind of money to throw out. I want to see teams like the thunder and cavs get a title instead of watching the lakers and heat ever year. Shouldn't be about the big markets and owners who have more money. It should be about the game.
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I agree 100%
 
A hard-cap actually hampers the ability of a small-market team to keep their players or attract others. Seriously think about it.

And I don't know if you've actually read the ****ing thread, but most people are quite GOP about this.
 
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