This. Sit Collier and put CW at PG.
Game Thread Mar 31, 2025 05:00PM MT: Utah Jazz @ Charlotte Hornets
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Is there anybody on that doesn't want the Jazz to finish with the worst record?
I think it would be understandable if someone didn't want to be that embarrassing.
I think it would be understandable if someone didn't want to be that embarrassing.
Ive lost all feeling for the season. It's w/e
Handlogten's Heros
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I just want to have a gap between where we are and where we could be so we can try in the final Minny game without consequence.
I don’t want the worst record. I want exactly the 2nd worst record.
This is the last game of the year I would do shameful tanking (if they succeed).
fishonjazz
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I want the worst record
Coach Ellis
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This. Jazz need talent. Even though there’s a pretty big gap between Flagg and Johnson, there’s an even bigger drop off after that. Jazz need to lock in a top 5 pick and add some more talent to this team.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
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I’m confused. The first and second pick have the same odds for Cooper Flagg, but having the number two odds also means you can get the sixth pic instead of just the fifth pick we need at least the fifth pick I’m not risking going down even further.
Numb is superstitious.
underdog
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That’s right, for the remaining games, the Jazz, Wizards, and Hornets are all tanking hard to avoid the possibility of ending up with the 6th or 7th pick.
Basically. That, and there is a fair argument that you are harming development of prospects or culture at a certain point of tanking egregiousness. Is the marginal chance of picking one pick later in a worst-case-scenario worse than what you lose in intangible development value? I think it’s a valid question. We have already succeeded in the first goal which is to be bottom-3, and I fully endorse getting grimy to that point, but beyond that point? I don’t know. Feels like that’s where the marginal value of tanking might plateau and the marginal value of playing basketball in earnest starts to match or eclipse.
I also still believe Kas is a top-6 prospect and that’s where the first major cliff in talent falls off for me. Queen is contextually in that conversation, but I’m out since I’m kinda just out on players in his mold (non-rim protecting dinosaur bigs) and we have Walker to boot.
And yeah, IF the NBA puts their thumb on the scale of the lottery, it paints a very different picture regarding the worst record never getting the top pick in this era. The “basketball gods” argument is fine and fun, but if the NBA is shadow-punishing the worst tankers then I don’t want the mark. The marginal value of pick floor is not there for me.
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I also have to admit that at this point, it’s Flagg or bust. I just don’t like Dylan Harper very much (amazing for a team with two top-4 talents that they were *** and that might say something about them, especially since their BPM is shockingly weak), I see real warts in everyone there and down the list. So the question of pick floor just really doesn’t matter to me at this point (at least regarding whether we get 5th or 6th, I really don’t care.).
Where I'm at with Kas is that I can see where he isn't maybe a top 6 prospect, but I would still prefer him on the Jazz over almost everyone outside of Flagg and Harper. Kon is also growing on me and I might prefer him to some of the consensus top 6 guys as well. In other words, I think there will be good players at 6 and maybe even 7 available.
This could be true. If so, it would be an anomaly of a sort, however. The relative difference in value between picks (on average) generally declines with each pick. Difference in value between 1 & 2 is typically much larger than difference in value between 5 & 6. (Remember a couple weeks ago, Andy Larsen a couple weeks ago calculated the value difference between finishing with the worst record and the 2nd worst record as about 20% of the value of a late 2nd-round pick.)
That's why I've been pressing a bit to have people tell me who they have in mind at 5 that is so much better than at 6.
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underdog
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Yeah, I’m okay with a bottom-3 record too. But I’m thinking, while we’re at it, might as well aim for the worst record to secure no worse than a top 5 pick. And I don't believe that the NBA lottery is rigged.
fishonjazz
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Honestly doesn't really matter who jazz fans have in mind at 5 that is so much matter than at 6. Jazz fans don't draft for the jazz.
I want Ainge to have the best pick possible so he has the most options of players he has worked out and studied etc to pick from.
Maybe Ainge loves a dude at 5 and we pick 6 and he doesn't get to pick the dude he wants.
I've also been somewhat influenced by the argument that draft mistakes are typically made high in the draft when you draft someone hoping to be a #1 who turns out not to be able to carry the load. Better, I've heard some draftniks argue, to draft someone you're confident to be a great role player than struggle to force a (perhaps not well-rounded or inefficient) player into a number one role on your team just because they are drafted high and you need a #1.
Whether this applies to comparing players like Ace, Tre, Kasparas, or Kon, I can't fully say -- but maybe some of the rest of you have a better perspective from which to judge.
Whether this applies to comparing players like Ace, Tre, Kasparas, or Kon, I can't fully say -- but maybe some of the rest of you have a better perspective from which to judge.
Yeah, that's all that matters, ultimately. Jazz actions seem to be telling us they think there's a big difference between 5 & 6.
I think this is an interesting concept and doesn't just apply to the top of the draft. Basically is it better to pick a guy with a high floor and hope he overacheives on his perceived ceiling or to pick the guy who has the highest perceived ceiling and hope he doesn't bust.