CONAN
Well-Known Member
I'm gonna hang with this.
Marijuana: Facts, Myths, and plain old Stupidity.
- Thread starter TroutBum
- Start date
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Actually, driving while texting/putting on your makeup/etc isn't illegal everywhere.
Like you said, there is no way to test it like alcohol. So this will remain as the last sticking point with all the people who are fighting to keep marijuana illegal.
You can't really have it be a judgement call. That would be a judicial nightmare. People that are actually high would be getting off, while people that only smoked once 2 weeks ago would be going to jail for driving while high. There either needs to be a standard, which can be tested and proven, or it needs to be legal.
If you have a root canal on Tuesday and take a single lortab for pain and then hit someone on Thursday, when the cops do a blood draw you are going to be busted for driving while "intoxicated" even if the lortab effects wore of 48 hours ago. The burden of proof that you weren't high at the time of the accident would be on you. Put simply, there are consequences for using drugs, legal or not.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
I honestly don't know about that. I have no idea how long a lortab stays in your system, or if there is even a test to detect it. I have not researched any of that.
It doesn't matter though, because we're not talking about lortabs here, we're talking about a (theoretically) legal marijuana. You can't really legalize marijuana if it in fact is a huge danger on the roads and there is no way to test for people being under the influence when driving.
I'm guessing when you get a prescription for lortabs they tell you not to drive for 48 hours or whatever (if it will in fact get you sent to jail). But if marijuana was legal, it would still show up in your system several weeks or even months after using it- long after the affects have worn off.
Now if it is legal, and you are not under the influence when driving, then why should you go to jail for testing positive? And at the same time, if it's super dangerous to drive after using it, how can you legalize it with no way to tell who is driving after using it?
The people saying it's bad to drive but it should be legal need to ask themselves, how bad is it to drive and is it worth keeping marijuana illegal to make sure driving after using it is illegal, or is it worth legalizing driving after using it in order to legalize marijuana? Because you have to link driving with normal usage until there is a way to test for influence and not just detect it in your system.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
I don't get that. Are you saying that having a legit test for marijuana available to cops would be grounds for legalizing it (like alcohol)? And there are ways to test just not feasible to cops on the road (blood and plasma tests).
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
I am saying that you can't test whether someone is high or not. You can only test whether they have marijuana in their system or not. As we all know, marijuana stays in your system for weeks or months, long after the affect of the drug has worn off. So if marijuana was legal, it would either be illegal for anyone to drive who has used marijuana (even if they aren't high anymore and haven't used it for weeks) or you would have to legalize driving under the influence of it.
A
Agoxlea
Guest
I found this relevant https://www.gallup.com/poll/150149/Record-High-Americans-Favor-Legalizing-Marijuana.aspx
I was wondering when the new Gallup poll would be out. That is great news. Just a mere 6 years ago it was at 36%. That is a very significant increase. And since the smallest number in favor are the elderly, that number should go nowhere but up.
I expect to see a state to vote it legal in the next 5 years, possibly even next year in Colorado or California or a state like Washington. I am rather excited about this news, especially since I would like to open up a legal shop and run the place with a few of my cousins (I'm working on getting a Master's degree in Accounting, so running the books would be a dream come true). Of course, the assclowns that are the Federal Government will have something to say about it, but their job is to ruin things.
I expect to see a state to vote it legal in the next 5 years, possibly even next year in Colorado or California or a state like Washington. I am rather excited about this news, especially since I would like to open up a legal shop and run the place with a few of my cousins (I'm working on getting a Master's degree in Accounting, so running the books would be a dream come true). Of course, the assclowns that are the Federal Government will have something to say about it, but their job is to ruin things.
squareinthecircle
Well-Known Member
California could be the first. California Medical Association is pushing for it to be legalized, and the American Medical Association wants it decriminalized. Here's a nice article.
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/webl...rnia-medical-association-pushes-pot-legaliza/
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/webl...rnia-medical-association-pushes-pot-legaliza/
GVC
Well-Known Member
The organization in Washington is a bit of a mess. They decided to go big in 2011, hired some big shot defense attorney and journalist to run the campaign, and brought in "experts" to help with marketing and the like. The attorney ended up alienating a lot of the people who'd been working on legalization in Washington for years, and the journalist was a ****ing mess. They got fewer signatures this year than they had in 2010, despite a much bigger budget.
Or at least that's the story I get from someone involved in the process the last few years. You'd think it would be easy to at least get on the ballot in Washington...
CONAN
Well-Known Member
You can test it's just not feasible and not to mention the legalities of roadside blood testing. It's not whether marijuana is in your system it's a matter of how much. No question this is a legit factor in legalization given that driving while high is very dangerous.
I agree driving impaired whatever the source of impairment should be against the law. Maybe they need to come up with new punishments too. How about a beating with a salt water soaked bamboo stick followed by a forced detox program.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
How much is in your system doesn't tell you anything though. As has been pointed out, marijuana stays in your system for weeks or months. There is no test that will tell you how recently someone has done marijuana. All you can detect is that they have done it in the past several weeks or months. This "high" wears off in a matter of hours, but the drug stays in your system for weeks or months. If you usually smoke a lot of marijuana every day, and then one day you don't smoke any, you'll still have a lot in your system even though you didn't smoke any that day and are actually sober.
It's not like alcohol where it affects you as long as it is detectable. With alcohol, they know you are drunk. With marijuana, they only know that you were high at some point within the past several weeks or months.
This is my point here. The people saying "weed should be legal but driving is a bad idea" need to choose which one is more important. Is driving such a bad idea that it should be illegal? If so then you have to take away the right to drive from anyone who has smoked weed (legally) within the past several weeks or months. If driving after weed is not that big of a deal, then you obviously just legalize it and be done with it.
My position is and has been that driving after weed is not a big deal. Multiple studies support this position. Smoking a whole lot of weed makes you drive like someone who had half a beer or something like that but is still legal to drive and not even close to the legal alcohol limit (as the studies indicate).
But enough people were taking the "weed should be legal but driving after weed is bad" position that I had to call them on it. You can't have both. If driving after weed really is bad, and really is dangerous, then there is no way it should be legal to drive after weed. And since there is no way to test for it, roadside or otherwise, then you either can't legalize weed at all (and this is the main argument against legalizing it in the states that try), or you have to revoke the drivers license from anyone who gets a marijuana card.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
In the context of safe driving it is irrelevant whether you have THC in your system or not. It is a question of what that level is. And there are tests to know that (blood).
And your own study refutes this (as does common sense). Not to mention you yourself said: "I think smoking way too much would affect the ability to drive".
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
1: No, you don't know what you are talking about. Again, THC stays in your system for weeks and even months after smoking weed. If you smoke a lot of weed, you will have a lot of THC in your system even when you are sober. If you usually never smoke weed but one day you get high, you will probably have less THC in your system (while you're high) than someone who usually smokes a lot of weed every day but doesn't smoke any one day (while he's sober). It's not like alcohol where they can just see how much is in your system and know if you are drunk or not.
2: Yes, smoking way too much weed will impair your driving. So will wearing pants that are way too tight, eating way too much pizza, drinking way too much coffee, or doing way too much of anything else. I don't think it's a big deal because most weed smokers don't usually hit that level. Just like most pizza eaters don't, most coffee drinkers don't, etc. The usual amount of weed smoked, even if someone smokes what is considered a lot, is not enough to make driving as dangerous as someone who is at the legal alcohol limit. And the studies I posted confirm this.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Clearly.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
No, you don't know what I'm talking about. Do you even read? I'm talking about the level of THC, not the existence of it. There are levels of THC that are irrelevant to driving (below 5 ng/ml). And this can be tested. Again, I'm not concerned about whether someone has a running amount of THC in them because they are a pothead loser. I'm more concerned about when that level reaches above 5 ng/ml and they drive.
Actually, your study refutes your position. But let's clarify that just to be sure. You admit there is a level that potheads can reach where they shouldn't drive. What level is that?
I've already made the point that the law doesn't differentiate between whether you are high or not, just that you have the chemical in your system. The lortab example is based on opiates and can be tested with a blood draw just as THC could be checked for. Of course it is typically only checked in cases of major accidents.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
Exactly, you could test positive for weed but still be well under the bad driving limit.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
1: Again, if you read that study, it talks about this (saying you need a high and a low level because of this). THC stays in your system long after the high is gone. If you get high every day, you may have 5 ng/ml (or more) in your system at all times even when you are sober. If you are someone who has never smoked weed, you might have less THC in your system while you are high, than someone who is sober at the moment but usually smokes weed every day.
Again, I understand what you are saying, but you're wrong. I know there are limits of THC. I'm just trying to explain to you that the limits don't tell you if someone is high at that particular moment or not. They only tell you that someone has been high at some point in the past. It could mean they usually get high every day and may or may not be high at that moment (high THC in blood), or it could mean they usually don't get high but got high for the first time right before the test (low THC in the blood), or they sometimes get high but not always, and may or may not be high at that particular moment (low to high THC in the blood).
2: I think the limit where people are a danger driving after smoking weed is not something to worry about because the higher someone is, the less they want to do. If someone is so high they can't drive, then they will probably not even want to get up off the couch. There is no way to put a number on it because how high you get depends on your tolerance, which changes depending on how often you smoke.