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Maybe we got the Sloan/DWill thing backwards...

NotDeadYet

NotDeadYet

Well-Known Member
Between this article:
https://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/51306949-87/jazz-monson-sloan-miller.html.csp?page=1........and KOC announcing before the start of the previous season that Boozer would NOT be resigned by the Jazz, makes me think Sloan stepped down because he was made aware of managements desire to TRADE DWill this year and was dead set against it.
Going back to Boozer, I wondered at the time WHY Sloan started the season with Boozer over Millsap, knowing KOC had no intention of bringing Boozer back. We all know Sloan loves his veterans, so I just kinda rolled with it, even though I thought they'd be grooming Millsap later in the season. Never happened...
I never bought this DWill/Williams confrontation thing. Jerry is a combative personality; he had disagreements all the time. Yeah, he looked tired on the bench, and I think when the word came down that DWill would be available in a trade, that was the last straw...
 
Does not compute.

No one is denying that Sloan and Deron had their run-ins. The most believable story, IMO, is that Sloan got sick of it, and informed the FO that he was done at halftime of the Bulls game. The FO tried to convince him to stay, even promised to trade Deron, but couldn't persuade him. Wanting a fresh slate for Ty, Greg/KOC (in that order) moved Deron.

If that's not the case, the Jazz are ****ed.
 
GVC said:
Does not compute.

No one is denying that Sloan and Deron had their run-ins. The most believable story, IMO, is that Sloan got sick of it, and informed the FO that he was done at halftime of the Bulls game. The FO tried to convince him to stay, even promised to trade Deron, but couldn't persuade him. Wanting a fresh slate for Ty, Greg/KOC (in that order) moved Deron.

If that's not the case, the Jazz are ****ed.
Click to expand...

Exactly this.
 
interesting that you started this thread, because I was thinking something along the same lines...

not quite involving trading Deron, but involving Sloan's realization beginning last spring that the team was not picking up the pieces to build a championship team over the next few seasons, and he saw how the recently acquired pieces were fitting in (or not, as the case may be) as this season progressed and his own frustrations boiled over

I s'pose I'm being a bit Pollyanna-ish, but I think Deron and Sloan were probably on the same page more than they were at odds.


And that's an interesting article. So is it that once LHM was gone, the tide turned and the power shifted?
 
Greg wanted to have the team with HIS stamp it, not Jerry's. Somehow he parlayed Deron's insubordination into Jerry's departure, and then got rid him too.

That would not have happened if Deron was traded earlier.
 
Not buying. Jerry left because the front office would not back him in what he wanted to do with Deron. That is my one criticism of everything that has transpired. I would be a lot more excited about our new 19 year old if Jerry and Phil were here to teach him the ropes.

I am guessing that Ty believed Deron was not happy here and was going to leave. Ty is in a place where rebuilding is fine. Jerry was never happy with that as an option - probably why Booz was not traded.
 
The official story just doesn't seem to satisfy the public. Rumours will circulate for years on the Williams/Sloan departure.

For me, I think it was a case of confused roles. Players play, coaches coach, GMs manage, and owners own. I think that maybe both Jerry and Dwill were stepping out of thier roles, and managment/owner did what they needed.
 
gomretat said:
Not buying. Jerry left because the front office would not back him in what he wanted to do with Deron. That is my one criticism of everything that has transpired.
Click to expand...

Larry's gone. It's Greg's team now and he didn't want Sloan to coach it, and I don't think that that is unreasonable. Time to move on and see just how committed Greg is to bringing a winner to Utah.
 
just found this, sort of sums up some of my thoughts...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/615715-truth-for-utah-jazz-deron-williams-and-jerry-sloan-drama-doesnt-matter-anymore#page/6
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/615715-truth-for-utah-jazz-deron-williams-and-jerry-sloan-drama-doesnt-matter-anymore#page/7

During the 2006-2007 season, the Utah Jazz visited the Western Conference Finals but lost to the San Antonio Spurs.

Here are some names from that roster: Matt Harpring, Paul Millsap, Andrei Kirilenko, Ronnie Brewer, Mehmet Okur, Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer and C.J. Miles.

And here's what happened from the beginning of last year:

Harpring retired after being traded with rookie Eric Maynor to the Oklahoma City Thunder to clear up cap space. Maynor has developed into a cheap, solid backup for Russell Westbrook.

GM Kevin O'Connor traded Ronnie Brewer at the end of last year's trade deadline when the Jazz were making a push. The move was to save money. There wasn't another reason other than it made financial sense to ditch him, even though Brewer was always among the leaders in field goal percentage for a guard and had uncanny chemistry with Williams.

Then, the undrafted gem Wesley Matthews snuck away to Portland over the summer. Then Carlos Boozer and Kyle Korver—who set a three-point shooting record last year—bolted for Chicago without barely even hearing an offer from the Jazz.

Sloan was upset. Williams was upset.

Four major players from last season's team are with the Jazz this year, and Mehmet Okur has been injured since the season began, leaving the team with three of the larger pieces.

For years analysts constantly gave the Jazz the "good" label but claimed that they were missing a piece....

...Kevin O'Connor batted zero this summer but walked to first once with Gordon Hayward, who was left stranded on base. The team was there and growing. Management wasn't willing to commit to winning when it had the chance.

Sloan and Williams felt the same about it....

...Both Deron Williams and Jerry Sloan looked for answers to their frustrations...

Williams did feel that Sloan's system had become predictable and that he wasn't adjusting enough. And, to a degree, Williams may have been right. It seemed like teams were more prepared for Utah's schemes than ever before.

Sloan had his points too. Players could make harder cuts to the basket and set better screens. They could have upped their physicality to a different degree, to a Jazz-like pedigree of toughness that was clearly lacking.

Both were probably right in a strange combination.....

...Maybe, just maybe, Sloan was tired of management leaving him with a good, but not great, team. And if he was losing the faith of his best player, while also knowing his management, maybe he was getting that deja vu experience of disappointment.

Maybe at the age of 68, Sloan was too tired to rebuild one last time.
Click to expand...
 
doubt it

this is Coach Sloan we are talking about. Coach Sloan did not leave when John and Karl left. He coached a team of no names and AK to a 42-40 record. It doesn't make sense that he'd leave because of not having "championship" pieces.

It is well reported that Sloan and Deron had their issues. I have never heard Deron speak highly of Sloan in a sincere way (besides the generic HOF coach statement) until his NJ presser where he said he loved Sloan.

I honestly don't think Deron thought he'd be held responsible for his action. I think he thought (not consciously) that he was bigger than the team and therefore could do what he wanted without consequence.

I don't know if Greg supported Jerry like Larry did. It hurts if he didn't. I do think though that by moving Deron (which still hurts) he showed that players don't run the Jazz. I just think its sad that he couldn't have taken care of things before things got so bad between Sloan and Deron.
 
dma said:
I don't know if Greg supported Jerry like Larry did. It hurts if he didn't.
Click to expand...

Time to face reality.

Jerry was Larry's guy, not his son's. That shouldn't be so hard to understand. Hopefully Greg is committed to building a winner, and if he is, it's understandable that he would want to find his "own" guy.
 
I already posited this theory in another thread and got shot down. To me it seems possible if not likely. I am sure trading D Will was on their mind (KOC, GM) from the get-go this season but they were probably waiting to see how things panned out by the deadline. If we were in a solid position, winning and actually in the running for a top 4 spot, and Deron was happy, then I am sure they would have left well enough alone. But as things went I think Sloan was aware of where it was headed and just didn't want to head up a rebuilding effort, and with that last argument with D Will he realized that rebuilding was where it all was heading so he retired.

I really doubt all that happened in the last 4 weeks was entirely unexpected. Maybe the timing and the exact way it went down was unexpected, but I am sure the FO saw it coming.
 
A good variety of opinions here; thanks!
The other obvious piece is Greg Miller's reasoning for doing the trade in the first place; Deron was giving no indication he would stay in Utah, which understandably made Miller uncomfortable with passing up this trade opportunity. Since we were already high on Favors before the draft, may even have tried to trade up, plus getting 2 lottery picks and a talented, dynamic and still young PG in addition, this certainly had to look like a solid deal.
And, we are now in a much better position to re-sign Kirilenko and/or Okur, which we would not likely do if Williams got a max contract here. I know we tend to value skilled big men very highly.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I am sure trading D Will was on their mind (KOC, GM) from the get-go this season but they were probably waiting to see how things panned out by the deadline. If we were in a solid position, winning and actually in the running for a top 4 spot, and Deron was happy, then I am sure they would have left well enough alone.
Click to expand...
If it were on their mind, why trade for AlJeff? The Jazz FO has been reactionary for as long as I've been a fan (03/04).
 
GVC said:
If it were on their mind, why trade for AlJeff? The Jazz FO has been reactionary for as long as I've been a fan (03/04).
Click to expand...

Because Boozer was the immediate need, obviously. He was set on going, and I think that is why they didn't come to an agreement on contract, plus his injury history and lack of defense. And quite frankly they weren't going to go into the monetary range he wanted to "get his raise regardless". They obviously had to replace him then and there. But they do tend to be more reactionary, however I give them a little more credit than that. I think they could see this brewing, but they didn't do anything until their hand was more or less forced by the lack of team cohesiveness, Sloan's poor timing, and Williams attitude, combined with the trade deadline and the looming lockout.
 
I seem to remember Greg Miller (or KOC?) saying they'd gotten this offer from New Jersey after Crymelo had been traded to the Knicks. I don't think the FO was seriously considering trading Williams going into this season.
As far as Jerry quitting because we were struggling? Not likely, as Jerry is way, way more focused on competing than on actually winning. He said as much in an interview before he drove off into the Illinois sunset, and I've had that impression from many of his comments over the years...
 
LogGrad98 said:
Because Boozer was the immediate need, obviously. He was set on going, and I think that is why they didn't come to an agreement on contract, plus his injury history and lack of defense. And quite frankly they weren't going to go into the monetary range he wanted to "get his raise regardless". They obviously had to replace him then and there. But they do tend to be more reactionary, however I give them a little more credit than that. I think they could see this brewing, but they didn't do anything until their hand was more or less forced by the lack of team cohesiveness, Sloan's poor timing, and Williams attitude, combined with the trade deadline and the looming lockout.
Click to expand...

If Boozer was so set on going, why did he give the Jazz a chance to match?
 
And quite frankly they weren't going to go into the monetary range he wanted to "get his raise regardless".
Click to expand...

JAZZFAN_2814 said:
If Boozer was so set on going, why did he give the Jazz a chance to match?
Click to expand...

Reading: it's fundamental!

If you really think he thought they would/could match you don't get the NBA. He knew exactly what their money situation was, which is why he said he was "opting out" rather than "negotiating an extension". He knew the money was not here, so he moved on.

The Bozzer thing has been hashed and re-hashed. Just my little opinion.


Interesting snippet:

Boozer opted back into his Jazz contract after finding there wasn't enough interest in the open market, hamstringing Utah's salary cap, and then angered their fans further by talking openly about how much he'd like to play for the Heat or the Bulls.

Cavs' fans started "I hate Boozer" Web sites when he left Cleveland. In Utah, the late Jazz owner Larry Miller publicly criticized Boozer's defensive effort, after which he developed what the press called a "mysterious" foot injury in 2005. Moreover, Miller later called Boozer's comments about wanting to leave "one of the top 10 stupidest things I've heard an NBA player do in 20 years."
Click to expand...

https://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/columns/story?id=5369163

And they are trying to spin Bozzer as they good guy.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Reading: it's fundamenta
Click to expand...

So is basic understanding of math. If you think the Boozer contract was too big, you're either innumerate or simply admitting that the Jazz had no interest in contending.

I'm pretty sure that this has definitively proven out, anyway.
 
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