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Memo Scored 18 in yesterdays Turkish cup game

One Brow said:
Again, what's worse than atrocious? If he already never closes out on the pick-and-roll and never plugs the lane when shooters drive in, will he suddenly start doing that a negative number of times? Zero (whcih certainly seesm to tbe the claims to you and Numberica) is as low as you can go, here.
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OK, so if you're arguing that he might return to his baseline level (which I won't strongly dispute), are you arguing that he should get minutes or not? As you've seen, my argument is that he should get a minimum of modest minutes at most--far less than his prior baseline averages of MPGs.

IMHO, he's gotten too much time in years past when he didn't deserve it; now, post-injury and post-30th-birthday (and post any improvement above "atrocious"), it's time to keep Okur in reserve mode unless he proves otherwise relative to the alternatives. In either direction.
 
NUMBERICA said:
For the record, I'm all about keeping Memo for peanuts and have him come off the bench for limited minutes. But his time as a starter playing big minutes are over (and in my contention, should probably never have started. Let's remember he won his ring in such a capacity).
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i agree
 
btw Sefolosha signed with another turkish team, Fenerbahce today, turkish teams are stealing nba players
 
InGameStrategy said:
OK, so if you're arguing that he might return to his baseline level (which I won't strongly dispute), are you arguing that he should get minutes or not?
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I have no idea. If the coaches think they will win more games with Okur playing 30 minutes, I'll trust their judgement. If the coaches think they will win more games with Okur playing 0 minutes, I'll trust their judgement.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Team defense. It's kind of just a little completely paramount for a big to play team defense.

Okur has always been an atrocious help defender and he's going to be even worse now.
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i understand that team defense is important.

on the other hand, stopping your own guy has to be "paramount" (of chief concern), right? you know, that guy you have been assigned to guard, the one right in front of you? the Okur hate is ridiculous. the guy can score and rebound, and according to synergy he is pretty good at stopping his own guy. but let's all hate him because he isn't stopping everyone else's guy too!
 
r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
awesome logic. it is Okur's fault that no one on the team can guard their own guy without help. Jerry just rolled over in his grave.
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Poor Jerry--they must have buried him alive . . .

Although Okur (and most players) could've trained harder, I'm not blaming Okur at this juncture for not being a legit center. The bigger issue is that he is getting to be over the hill and overpaid and shouldn't be given an ocean of PT simply for prior years' performance.

Perhaps you've missed my subtle mantra about the importance of coaches using minutes and lineups as a key strategic component and development tool. IMHO, Sloan overused Okur, despite (ironically) Okur's key strength being the 3 ball, which Sloan preached to underdefend and despite the glaring need to have a center with defensive ability along Boozer.
 
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InGameStrategy said:
But normal was not good enough for Okur to be a convincing center on both ends of the floor most of the time in the past, except as a clutch shooter and a Yao-killer (but defensively only). Above average offensively; NOT above-average defensively.

Now that he's limped into his 30's, he's still no better than a neutral player to occasional help. Utah needs more than that at the 5, and they have one of the deepest rotations and the PF/C spot that they've had in a long time, even without Okur. With all my gripes about Al (especially regarding his effort/skill on (help) defense), I'd usually want him out there at the C spot over an aging Memo, and I definitely don't want Okur playing if it comes at the expense of not playing Kanter 10 to 15 MPG or Favors 20+ minutes per game (at either post position). Let Kanter come in to finish 1st/3rd quarters and start the first quarter, and let Okur toward the end of halves, with a goal of getting a minimum 10 to 15 MPG--just like EK. Whoever does better gets more time.

Like Numberica, I am amazed that you will use a player's prior liability as justification that a mild worsening of that liability is not much of a big deal.
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I'm looking forward to Kanter and Memo being out there at the same time. I think Okur can show him a lot.


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r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t said:
i understand that team defense is important.

on the other hand, stopping your own guy has to be "paramount" (of chief concern), right? you know, that guy you have been assigned to guard, the one right in front of you? the Okur hate is ridiculous. the guy can score and rebound, and according to synergy he is pretty good at stopping his own guy. but let's all hate him because he isn't stopping everyone else's guy too!
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Way to stick your neck out and say that man-on defense is important. Unfortunately, for a center, it's insufficient. The notion that part of a center's responsibilities including help defense is not a new or uncommon one.

Where Bargnani struggles on the defensive end is recognition and help defense, and this is what makes him a poor defensive center. You saw it this postseason, you want your center to be able to recognize things quickly on the defensive end, identifying when they should help and when they should stay home. Andrea Bargnani was awful at that, and with him as the last line of defense, it destroys everything the Raptors are trying to do on the defensive end.
https://nbaplaybook.com/2011/06/28/jonas-valanciunas-andrea-bargnani-can-work-defensively/
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Marcus Camby of the Denver Nuggets has always been much better than most people think. He's starting to gain the recognition he deserves. Slowed by injuries for most of his career, Camby won the Defensive Player of the Year for the 2007 season. He has great lateral quickness on the block, enabling to play great help defense. Moreover, one of his biggest attributes is his ability to find open players and step outside and feed other post players or slashing teammates. Camby is the fourth best center in the NBA.

https://phil-partington.suite101.com/nbas-top-five-centers-a21483#ixzz1acEhmp6k
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I value help defense more than anything else when evaluating centers.
https://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2010/11/05/tbj-positional-power-rankings-nba-centers-november-2010/
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The same excuse for Okur has been used for Al Jefferson; both have been characterized as OK man-on-man defenders, but their help defense is inadequate. As I recall, the same was said about Boozer (although even the former might have been a stretch).

Bottom line is that a center needs to be able to control the paint, and that role includes deterring opposing players in addition to having the primary responsibility for the opposing center.
 
One Brow said:
As I took pains to mention, it's a question of how much ability. If a player X has a rating in category A of 80 and in category B of 20, while player Y has scores of 30 and 70, respectively, and then both players lose half of what they had in category A, have they both lost the same amount?
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My question is,,,,, Do you try to ride your dog and call him by the name of Battle-cat after your watch HE-MAN? Well you should'nt watch Beautiful Mind and then post a topic thinking that your Russle Crowe either. Just something to remember :) lololololol. Maybe you should just focus on decoding Japanese bombs for the US Gov. lol. Dont forget to cut up your magazine for tonight! :)
 
Lakers_Slapper said:
My question is,,,,, Do you try to ride your dog and call him by the name of Battle-cat after your watch HE-MAN? Well you should'nt watch Beautiful Mind and then post a topic thinking that your Russle Crowe either.
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I bet that line is really effective on people who don't have degrees in mathematics.
 
One Brow said:
I bet that line is really effective on people who don't have degrees in mathematics.
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high_horse.jpg


I'll bet your **** doesn't stink way up there on your horse.
 
YB85 said:
I'll bet your **** doesn't stink way up there on your horse.
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Let me put it this way: I'd never accuse you of having just watched "Why do Fools Fall in Love" and thinking you knoe somethign about music because of that.
 
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