Mormons and the Word of Wisdom
- Thread starter Bronco70
- Start date
Completely agree. At least as far as I am concerned, the views expressed have very little to do (if anything) with the LDS religion and more as you described ... the thread just happened to be centered/started with the LDS church members in mind.
Good point, Conan.
By the way, the people I have a hard time with (regardless of religion, or no religion at all), aren't those that are uptight (my word used earlier) or analytical..
it's those you can tell are pitying those around them for not being on the same level they are on .. the same that become exhaustingly self-righteous.
This can be caused by religion, by being an intellectual elitist, from wealth .. any number of causes.
I know only a couple of LDS members that fit this description .. I also know a couple of intellectual snobs that fit the same .. as well as financial elitists..
They all suck, regardless of cause.
it's those you can tell are pitying those around them for not being on the same level they are on .. the same that become exhaustingly self-righteous.
This can be caused by religion, by being an intellectual elitist, from wealth .. any number of causes.
I know only a couple of LDS members that fit this description .. I also know a couple of intellectual snobs that fit the same .. as well as financial elitists..
They all suck, regardless of cause.
I have a couple of different perspectives.
I grew up in S. Jordan. Back then it was a very rural, farming community... and 99.9% LDS. As a kid I had exactly zero exposure to any influence that wasn't LDS. In my ward there was maybe 3 families that weren't active. They were Mormon, just not active. Guess what? My friends and I had little to do with them but conversely, they had little to do with us. They avoided us just as much as we avoided them. There wasn't any bad blood between us, it's just the way it was.
Fast forward to when I get married. My wife and I move to California. What an eye opener. My first job there I worked with the most eclectic group of people you could ever assemble. There was Zach from Lebanon (Lebanese food is wonderful by the way). David and Sal from Iran. Lena from Israel. Tina, the Catholic from Arkansas. Ruth, a prototypical Hollywood Jewish princess. A woman from Singapore (I forget her name). And me, the very white Utah Mormon boy. There was lot's of good natured ribbing, lot's of discussions about political and religious differences, but I learned more in that one year than I had in the 23 years prior to that.
In California I also learned that Utah Mormons ARE very different. Being Mormon in SoCal was much more laid back. In Utah there was/is much more pressure to be a "good Mormon"
Fast forward, my wife and I have three kids while in SoCal and decide to move back to Utah so the kids can be around family growing up. We're trying to raise them to be open and receptive to all races and religions. My oldest daughter was 7. She finds very quickly that she's the outsider even though she's Mormon and active. During Sunday School she mentions having gone to a Methodist service when she lived in SoCal and gets a 10 minute scolding from her teacher about wandering from the path of righteousness. She also finds that when she's at church or church activities she's treated well but the next day at school she's the outcast. Of course she makes friends at school with kids that are not of the faith. This only hastens her expulsion. By the time she's 12 she's done with Mormon kids. When called into the Bishop's office to find out why she's not attending church she flat out tells him that she feels unwelcome and that the other kids in the ward treat her poorly, including the bishop's daughter. Well, that gets me a call into the Bishop's office about my daughter's poor attitude. This was the beginning of the end of my being active. The Bishop couldn't see that his kid as well as others in the ward were being exclusive and highly judgmental, just that my daughter was the problem and that I wasn't doing a good job of raising her.
I'm still receptive to the doctrine and teachings of the LDS faith, it's just many of the people that I can't stand. If more people were like Bronco and Zulu it would serve the church tremendously.
I grew up in S. Jordan. Back then it was a very rural, farming community... and 99.9% LDS. As a kid I had exactly zero exposure to any influence that wasn't LDS. In my ward there was maybe 3 families that weren't active. They were Mormon, just not active. Guess what? My friends and I had little to do with them but conversely, they had little to do with us. They avoided us just as much as we avoided them. There wasn't any bad blood between us, it's just the way it was.
Fast forward to when I get married. My wife and I move to California. What an eye opener. My first job there I worked with the most eclectic group of people you could ever assemble. There was Zach from Lebanon (Lebanese food is wonderful by the way). David and Sal from Iran. Lena from Israel. Tina, the Catholic from Arkansas. Ruth, a prototypical Hollywood Jewish princess. A woman from Singapore (I forget her name). And me, the very white Utah Mormon boy. There was lot's of good natured ribbing, lot's of discussions about political and religious differences, but I learned more in that one year than I had in the 23 years prior to that.
In California I also learned that Utah Mormons ARE very different. Being Mormon in SoCal was much more laid back. In Utah there was/is much more pressure to be a "good Mormon"
Fast forward, my wife and I have three kids while in SoCal and decide to move back to Utah so the kids can be around family growing up. We're trying to raise them to be open and receptive to all races and religions. My oldest daughter was 7. She finds very quickly that she's the outsider even though she's Mormon and active. During Sunday School she mentions having gone to a Methodist service when she lived in SoCal and gets a 10 minute scolding from her teacher about wandering from the path of righteousness. She also finds that when she's at church or church activities she's treated well but the next day at school she's the outcast. Of course she makes friends at school with kids that are not of the faith. This only hastens her expulsion. By the time she's 12 she's done with Mormon kids. When called into the Bishop's office to find out why she's not attending church she flat out tells him that she feels unwelcome and that the other kids in the ward treat her poorly, including the bishop's daughter. Well, that gets me a call into the Bishop's office about my daughter's poor attitude. This was the beginning of the end of my being active. The Bishop couldn't see that his kid as well as others in the ward were being exclusive and highly judgmental, just that my daughter was the problem and that I wasn't doing a good job of raising her.
I'm still receptive to the doctrine and teachings of the LDS faith, it's just many of the people that I can't stand. If more people were like Bronco and Zulu it would serve the church tremendously.
Not just those two, obviously, but yes .. I agree. I am not receptive to the doctrine, personally, but I also have no agenda against it and like to see well-meaning folks have the correct light cast upon their cause.
This is an excellent observation.
For the record, I get along fine with pretty much everyone in my ward. There are many with whom I would have no interest in extended social interaction. But I respect that everyone has their own approach to living their beliefs. For the most part, others do this, to one extent or another. There is, however, too much worry about what others will think. The flip side is, if people could be less judgmental, perhaps everyone would loosen up. But it seems to be a vicious cycle.
When visiting wards outside of Utah, we are almost uniformly greeted and welcomed immediately by a large percentage of the ward. Since being married, my wife and I have lived in five different wards. The first one was very friendly, right off the bat, but the others - not so much. One ward we attended for 3 weeks before we were even acknowledged. My neighbor, who has lived in our current ward for about 8 years, and is an active and participating member, confided in me that he still feels much like an outsider.
lol
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
How did she get outcast at age 7? Are there even church activities at that age outside of Cub Scouts? It doesn't seem like her getting rebuked by a teacher in church at that age would be meaningful at all to her peers, especially since most of them at her school wouldn't even be in your ward.
All I know is that in my ward growing we pretty much divided off just like we did at school. There were two cute girls in my ward that I became friends with, and I barely said a word to any of the rest because I wasn't attracted to them. And there were 4 or 5 guys that liked to play ball and were my friends, and the rest of the guys were just kind of there. Granted, I was an arrogant jerk growing up(still working on subduing that part of me in fact) and didn't care about being nice, but that's the way it worked even when you would go to a stake youth activity too. I think people are sometimes guilty of pinpointing the church structure or the church culture as the source of a problem, when it probably was just some mean kids being exclusive for reasons other than anything to do with church.
I have been in wards where "Primary" is highly active.
Scat if your story is true, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, than I hope you stood up for your daughter and put the Bishop in his place. He is your spiritual advisor, not your father.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
Well yeah, I'm talking things extant to church. I guess I do remember primary activity days. You go there on a Saturday morning once a month, sing a few songs, munch some doughnuts down, maybe do a service project, and that was that. It's still hard for me to imagine grouping off at that age especially based on religiosity.
People can be mean, thoughtless, selfish, and know it alls.
I like wheat and should eat less meat... more grains.
Full circle.
I like wheat and should eat less meat... more grains.
Full circle.
Each of us is different and the problems we deal with are very different. We all have strengths and weaknesses.
CONAN
Well-Known Member
No doubt.
I hesitate to even say this, because it is a broad generalization, but I've always felt that people who fall away from the church because another member "offended" them were probably looking for an reason to leave anyway. It seems like it has to be deeper than getting your feelings hurt. If the church isn't right for you, I can respect that. But be honest about it.
I have been in wards where the Primary set things up based on the Elders Quorum and Relief Society. They would plan Primary activities for the parents that brought their kids to meetings or what not. Service projects, Trunk or Treat, Christmas prgram, Easter Program, Thanksgiving dinner, 4th of July pot luck lunch...all had Primary activites set up.