DutchJazzer
Banned
if it isnt fear for moslims. its fear for something else. american goverment always seems to need fear to take some freedoms from their civilians away
Muslims volunteer to be human shields for Christians
- Thread starter VINYLONE
- Start date
if it isnt fear for moslims. its fear for something else. american goverment always seems to need fear to take some freedoms from their civilians away
DutchJazzer
Banned
As I interpret the information I have, this is a fine example of Muslims wishing, pointedly, to protect a minority from violence. I think they were counting on the sufficiency of their unarmed presence to deter the extremists. I think it is good news because if people generally will do such things to protect the rights of others, we will all live in a safer world. And to that degree that people do these kind acts for one another, so much we will be able to dispense with the trillions of dollars wasted on arms.
Deep in the historical past, there have been places and times when Muslims did better than others at providing stable communities where some minorities like Jews and Christians did live securely.
DutchJazzer
Banned
problem is muslims are put in such a bad light these days
i got a LOT of muslim friends. heck i come from a country in the world where a synagogue is peacefully next to a mosque. what i find sad is that the world thinks of what some Muslims did all are suddenly bad and we are suspicious of them.
because most serial killers heck i guess all of them are Caucasian should i now fear every akward looking white man at night.
should i be scared of blacks wearing purple or red cus they might be a crip or blood or whatever.
just saying we as people must not be shortsighted and judge all muslims on the actions of a few especially one that is make believe(bin laden).
human shield is never a good thing imho. but the gesture behind it i see as something good. makes people who are shortsighted see the other side of the muslims
The Dutch were fairly cosmopolitan during the dark ages/Protestant reformation eras from what I've heard. Something about their trade relationships around the world. Smart businessmen. The Dutch were a haven for outcasts from England, who after having a few years to prepare, sailed for Plymouth Rock. Without Holland, no America.
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Deleted member 848
Guest
Great find OP
As one of the few (if not only) Muslim posters on this board, its refreshing to see examples like these, instead of constantly hearing about IEDs and other various beheadings based on "religious" grounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina One of the first legal documents made based on the ideals of what the founder of the Islam preaches religious tolerance. Its really unfortunate that nowadays you get countries like Saudi Arabia that claim to be the "perfect" Islamic state when really they differ in plenty of ways. Kinda saddening that I would have never heard of this had i not decided to frequent Jazzfanz lately, gotta love North American media.
As one of the few (if not only) Muslim posters on this board, its refreshing to see examples like these, instead of constantly hearing about IEDs and other various beheadings based on "religious" grounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina One of the first legal documents made based on the ideals of what the founder of the Islam preaches religious tolerance. Its really unfortunate that nowadays you get countries like Saudi Arabia that claim to be the "perfect" Islamic state when really they differ in plenty of ways. Kinda saddening that I would have never heard of this had i not decided to frequent Jazzfanz lately, gotta love North American media.
DutchJazzer
Banned
too be fair i'm not dutch. i speak dutch hence dutchjazzer. i'm from a former colony from dutch. dont have dutch nationality.
i was also watching some old documentareis of the cold war and the fear of a communist. lol.
why couldnt an american citizen have communist idea. without the fear of being sentenced to death. that was some irrational fear. or maybe the documentaries and movies are just exagerating
A lot of people do not understand the connections between the "two worlds" of the West. Islam arose from the same general place as Judaism/Christianity, borrowing some of the tradition or lore. . . .In some places, like Spain, the war between the Moors and Spaniards devolved into a common tie in royal marriages. . . . even the kings of nineteenth century Europe all had some Moorish or perhaps more specifically Berber ancestry. . . . and while Jews had difficulties finding a place in both domains sometimes, I think it can be said the Muslim world gave them a lot of little niches to live in. Maybe not as extensive as say some areas of Russia/Eastern Europe where the Jews could hold land and be farmers even. . . but then there is some dispute whether these were "real" Jews or a whole community that "converted" for some reason. . . .
I believe most Palestinians have a lot of forgotten Jewish ancestry, being folks of Jewish origin who just stayed there and went on farming their plots. . . . but most Israeli officials cannot come to grips with this, I think, obvious truth. Just makes the conflict all the more heart-wrenching and all the more outrageous that "interests" from outside are so involved in manipulating the conflict.
Indonesia? I've known some ethnic Indonesians from Holland. This connection could be one reason Holland has those various places of worship next ot each other, under general public acceptance. And I think very few Americans really have a concrete concept of all the internal differences within the Islamic communities around the world. Like the Christians with all their different national traditions. . . . We just play with little simplistic figures trying to keep it all so simple and clear cut.
Well, at some risk, I could hazard an opinion that there are discrete and/or mutually-exclusive elements of belief between the Declaration of Independence/ U S Constitution and Marxist dialectics. Concepts like inate human rights listing freedom of speech, freedom of religion, property rights, and such.
I read the Roy Kuen/McCarthy saga where communist belief was held as treason to the US, or where this argument was made. But for whatever reason, the right of people to speak and believe what they want was rallied. I don't think anyone was executed for this belief except the folks who gave the Russians the atomic bomb. Welcome any corrections here. . . .
Stockton_Fan
New Member
Those who do not fear communists/communism haven't learned from history. Babe is correct; Americans who advocated communism were never in fear of their lives, some did lose their jobs and careers.
The history of communism is far worse than the history of Islam. Communists like Stalin and Lenin killed over 50 million of their own citizens (the Holomodor in Ukraine starved 12 million Ukrainians). Mao killed or let starve some 70 million of his own citizens. Pol Pot killed 2 million (or one third) of his fellow citizens. Castro has killed probably tens of thousands.
The philosophy of communism is contrary to the belief in life, liberty, and "the pursuit of happiness" or property, since one cannot pursue happiness if one's property is seized. Communists (and their little siblings, the socialists) believe that an elite can control the economy better than can individual citizens acting in their own self interest.
So there is nothing irrational about fearing communism, just as there is nothing irrational about fearing radicalized believers in Islam who don't believe in peaceful coexistence with their neighbors.
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Deleted member 848
Guest
As a muslim canadian, at times like these I feel blessed to be cooped up in a highly taxed -40 C weather country (not sure of the fahrenheit conversion). The irony of that entire video is absolutely astounding.
Incase any of you got the wrong ideas, heres three translations from arabic on an excerpt regarding the islam viewpoint on "infidels" , and their treatment on judgement day, straight for the koran (not preaching, but clarifying)
YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
PICKTHAL: Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
SHAKIR: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the f Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.
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Deleted member 848
Guest
But anyways this is the second vid u posted, shedding light on inter-faith relations in the states. Is this a topic of interest towards you vinyl?
