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My argument for the death penalty...

He received a fairly significant settlement from the state,

"Fairly significant," there, eh, Mo? Ya done won the "Queen of Understatement" title here at Jazzfanz, I spect. My math aint so good, but $36 million, even split 4 ways, is still $9 million, aint it? To me, $500 would be "fairly significant" cash money.
 
Prop 13 is a revenue killer and the single biggest problem with California's revenue system. It's the reason income taxes are so high, property values are outrageous, sales taxes are high, the school system is funded through an exceedingly complex mechanism, and a significant contributing factor to why the budget is nearly impossible to balance. That it's also functionally a regressive tax is horrible as well.

No CA politician is willing to challenge it because it was extremely popular decades ago. This says everything you need to know about their testicular fortitude.

So you're saying that if P13 was repealed all of California's money woes would disappear?
 
Prop 13 is a revenue killer and the single biggest problem with California's revenue system.

A "revenue killer," eh? Well, I spoze when ya wanna run around blowin money like they aint no tomorrow, ya gotta raise "revenue" wherever and however ya can, eh?

Take some couple who bought a house in California 30-40 years ago for $50,000. They worked hard, raisin a big family and still somehow managin to make them mortgage payments every damn month.

Now the assessemnt authorites tell them their property is worth $1.5 million, even if it's now a run-down mess, because the lot has value. So the taxes are about 3%, i.e., about $50,000 EVERY year. No 30-year payments plans, neither. So, now what?

"Nobody ever owns real estate. At best they just rent it from the government. If you think otherwise, try not paying your real estate taxes some year." (Some guy)

Sing right on along, eh?:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM1dmNB_V3M
 
So you're saying that if P13 was repealed all of California's money woes would disappear?

Not all the way. I see balancing the CA budget as a three step process:

1. Repeal Prop. 13
2. Significantly Amend the Balloting process for amending the state Constitution (it's frankly too easy and makes it almost impossible to plan financially)
3. Amend the rule that requires a supermajority to pass a budget. Makes it too hard to cut anything to decrease spending or create new revenue streams.

Those are presently the three biggest reasons the CA budget is so screwed up and there's foreseeable way out. You have to address structural problems first and the budget process is structurally broken.
 
Not all the way. I see balancing the CA budget as a three step process:

1. Repeal Prop. 13
2. Significantly Amend the Balloting process for amending the state Constitution (it's frankly too easy and makes it almost impossible to plan financially)
3. Amend the rule that requires a supermajority to pass a budget. Makes it too hard to cut anything to decrease spending or create new revenue streams.

Those are presently the three biggest reasons the CA budget is so screwed up and there's foreseeable way out. You have to address structural problems first and the budget process is structurally broken.

Please comment on this:

Take some couple who bought a house in California 30-40 years ago for $50,000. They worked hard, raisin a big family and still somehow managin to make them mortgage payments every damn month.

Now the assessemnt authorites tell them their property is worth $1.5 million, even if it's now a run-down mess, because the lot has value. So the taxes are about 3%, i.e., about $50,000 EVERY year. No 30-year payments plans, neither. So, now what?

Added: Do you have an article you can link to that would give me more background on P13 and it's budgetary issues.
 
Added: Do you have an article you can link to that would give me more background on P13 and it's budgetary issues.

"Many of us remember that before Proposition 13 the average property tax rate in California was three percent of assessed value and there was no limit on annual increases. In those days, if a house on your block sold for much more than you paid for your house, you shuddered in fear when you received your next property tax bill. Things got so bad in the late 1970s that people were actually losing their homes because of uncontrolled tax increases."

https://www.hjta.org/propositions/proposition-13/what-do-you-tell-new-neighbor-about-proposition-13
 
Please comment on this:

Take some couple who bought a house in California 30-40 years ago for $50,000. They worked hard, raisin a big family and still somehow managin to make them mortgage payments every damn month.

Now the assessemnt authorites tell them their property is worth $1.5 million, even if it's now a run-down mess, because the lot has value. So the taxes are about 3%, i.e., about $50,000 EVERY year. No 30-year payments plans, neither. So, now what?

Added: Do you have an article you can link to that would give me more background on P13 and it's budgetary issues.

Here's the one advantage to Prop 13: Grandma stays in her house and pays her 1978 property tax levels.

However, it's not like in an anti-Prop 13 world she loses all that money and time she worked for during the last 30 years. She gets to sell the house for $1.5 million and can buy a sweet condo in the same town now that she doesn't need as much space because all her kids have moved out and she can set aside another cool million to go on vacations, pay for her grandkids college education, or leave in wills or anything else she might want to do. She gets all the benefit of her saving and paying off her mortgage.

Alternatively, if she REALLY REALLY doesn't want to leave her home she can engage in less conventional financial arrangements like a reverse mortgage where she gets paid every month to finance her retirement and the house goes to a financial institution after she dies.

The primary benefit of Prop 13 is entirely sentimental. The costs are extremely real and far outweigh the benefit.

It makes all housing prices higher because it decreases liquidity in the housing market. This happens because it provides a massive disincentive for people to move because they lose their tax basis in their old home and have to pay the new higher basis on their new home. This effectively creates a huge tax penalty to changing homes in California, a penalty that only gets larger over time. I'm sure I don't have to do much imagining for you to link the spectre of constantly rising housing prices, in part fuled through the market-limiting mechanisms of prop 13, and the type of assumptions that led to exotic lending for housing in California over the last ten years.

That penalty primarily affects newer people who move to California and young people who have not yet purchased their first house. Lower liquidity in the housing market, in effect, significantly lowers supply because fewer people will move and that increases house prices. This is the primary reason why I'm in the 95th percentile in terms of income in the country and can't afford a house within an hour of where I work.

Simultaneously it significantly caps the amount of money the state can generate from property taxes because the amount of taxes don't increase even as the taxed property radically increases in value. State's gotta get money from somewhere so it has higher income taxes and sales taxes. Net effect: there's an income transfer from the young and working to the old and those who have lived in the same house for many years. I estimate that, in addition to making housing completely unaffordable, Prop. 13 is personally costing me between $4,000 and $7,000 a year. This goes beyond me personally, however. The other people who get really screwed are poor people who will never be able to afford housing. They get none of the benefits of Prop. 13 and absorb all of the costs. Prop. 13, in effect, enriches those who already have on the backs of the young and the have-nots.

This post is getting overly long, but there's all kinds of other problems it creates related to school spending and spending on other public infrastructure, much of which traditionally comes from income tax sources.
 
If Cali repeals prop 13 maybe they can continue to spend money without regard for reality for a few more years. Whoopee!
 
The primary benefit of Prop 13 is entirely sentimental. The costs are extremely real and far outweigh the benefit...I'm in the 95th percentile in terms of income in the country...Prop. 13 is personally costing me between $4,000 and $7,000 a year.

I think Imma hafta go bawl for a good long spell, now.

I figure that only a monster with no regard for human life, like Vinny, there, could possibly hear a sad-*** tale like that and not languish in despair for months, ya know?
 
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Alternatively, if she REALLY REALLY doesn't want to leave her home she can engage in less conventional financial arrangements like a reverse mortgage where she gets paid every month to finance her retirement and the house goes to a financial institution after she dies.

Well, I guess the house goin to a "financial institution" is more better than goin straight to the State, eh? If by "finance her retirement" ya mean finance $50,000/year in increased property taxes, I guess I see your point. She would at least be financin YOUR retirement, I spoze, by savin you $4,000-7,000 year for every year of your life. Way to think out of the box! Mebbe I don't have to be so sad, after all.
 
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If I was Governor of the People's Republic of California, I would probably just enact an "estate tax" where, upon death, all property owned by a person gets confiscated by the Republic to finance it's important ventures, like payin a buncha bureaucrats $250,000 a year each to make sure a $100/pack tax on cigarettes gets enforced, and stuff. That way, the subjects of the Republic wouldn't have to pay as much while they're alive, see? Who needs money after they're dead? Not nobuddy, that's who! It's a win all the way round, I tellya!
 
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https://www.abc4.com/news/local/sto...ect-to-Provo-rape/LUvB77j2NUWeCk59rzdDkg.cspx
According to police, Leonard approached the victim and demanded money. Police say the victim attempted to call out for help as Leonard covered her mouth.

Police say the victim told Leonard that she had no money, but Leonard told her to lie down and close her eyes so he could run away. The complied, but police say Leonard placed some kind of thick string around her neck and dragged her into a hidden spot within the nearby trees.

Police say that while the victim was being dragged into the trees, she lost consciousness.

Police say Leonard then sexually assaulted her, and struck her about the head with a large football-sized rock and a concrete block, which caused serious injuries to her cheek, jaw, eye and teeth.

At some point during the assault, police say the victim regained consciousness, and Leonard once again strangled her with the string, causing the victim to once again lose consciousness.

So the newscasters say the police now have the evidence to put him behind bars "for a long time"... but I was thinking at least life, and if it was possible, this guy shouldn't have the privilege of breathing at the cost of my tax dollars.

It looks like there really is no question that he did it... so is there any rational reason this guy shouldn't sit in the electric chair / gas chamber? Maybe test out how long he keeps consciousness after execution by guillotine :confused:
 
Its hard to be the bigger person in this situation... but as responsible adults we have to do it.
 
Ya really didn't hafta include the gory-*** tale. One look at that face is enough to convince anybody that he should be summarily executed, ya know?
 
I'm normally not a big death penalty person... the potential of killing innocent people and all... but stories like this disgust me. Attacking a teenage girl walking on a trail and then dragging her to the bushes to rape and kill (or try to)... wow, I have a hard time understanding how a human could be capable of that.

This guy is just gonna waste our tax dollars rotting away in jail for the next 40 years, stealing perfectly good oxygen and returning nothing back but CO2. You know, I think there is something in the constitution about prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment... but in the case of what this guy did... what exactly should be considered cruel?
 
Its hard to be the bigger person in this situation... but as responsible adults we have to do it.

Tell ya what...when he gets out, how about he moves in next door to you and your family? You can be the bigger person and invite him over for BBQ's. He'll be completely reformed, so maybe even ask him to go along on a campout.

This guy is a poster child for why we should have AND enforce the death penalty. I have a daughter. I can't even imagine if this scumbag did the same thing to her. Sorry, IMO, he lost his rights the moment he raped and brutally assualted the poor woman. I don't care that she didn't die. By all rights, she probably should have: strangled and getting beaten with a large rock and concrete block.
 
I just read this article on KSL right before I logged on to Jazzfanz. If this wasn't posted here, I was going to post it. People like this make me so angry and sick. I can't even begin to contemplate what the girl or her family is going through at this time. I'm not going to do it, but if there was a way that someone could go Dexter on his ***, I would be all for it. I'm not kidding either. That scumbag doesn't deserve to breathe.
 
I strongly feel that a violent crime offender should have the same thing done to them that they do to their victim. You rape someone, you get raped (ok, prison takes care of that for us). You shoot someone, you get shot. You beat someone with a football sized rock, you get to find out how that feels too *******.
 
ok, it sort of got off track, but here are fifteen pages of discussion primarily on the death penalty...
 
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https://www.abc4.com/news/local/sto...ect-to-Provo-rape/LUvB77j2NUWeCk59rzdDkg.cspx


So the newscasters say the police now have the evidence to put him behind bars "for a long time"... but I was thinking at least life, and if it was possible, this guy shouldn't have the privilege of breathing at the cost of my tax dollars.

It looks like there really is no question that he did it... so is there any rational reason this guy shouldn't sit in the electric chair / gas chamber? Maybe test out how long he keeps consciousness after execution by guillotine :confused:

See here you guys go again thinking about the victims of these crimes. You need to stop thinking about them and focus on the real victims, you know the ones who committed the crimes and are facing accountability for what they've done. Surely you can't be cruel enough to think that they should actually do time or even be executed for what they have done. Okay, I'm done with the sarcasm. I'm also done talking to people who want to defend the lives of people who kill little kids (Ethan Stacy's mom and stepdad). Oh, but I guess we aren't sure that they did it. Right?
 
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