Name a coach and how many more wins we should have
- Thread starter Scorpjazz
- Start date
GVC
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree that that's what happened, I disagree about the reasons why that happened. Those 5 players do not play well together. The game plan, or at least how they execute on the court, to start games is to play slow, dump it into Al and stand around (and show no effort on defense). It's not a matter of not having the talent to execute when Al can't or doesn't get deep position or his teammates can't get him the ball, it's about actually having an alternative plan to execute.
DutchJazzer
Banned
whoopi goldberg
60-22 season
60-22 season
GVC
Well-Known Member
Misleading?Basketball is played by teams comprised of 5 players. Tinsley-Foye-Marvin-Millsap-Jefferson is ineffective a lot of the time. They don't get out and run, they don't have perimeter players who have been trusted to initiate any offense (neither Foye nor Marvin are particularly skilled with the ball in their hands), and they do absolutely nothing off the ball. They either don't know what to do when they can't get Al the ball or they choose not to do what they're supposed to do. In either case, it's Ty's job to fix the problem.
George
Banned
So what exactly about my reasoning is "so ****ing retarded"??
What I think is retarded is thinking that the lack of talent is not a factor of having "an alternative plan to execute".
I mean, what else could we do? Literally all I can think of is bringing in a 5 foul Favors and running a pick and roll with him and Tinsley-- despite the fact that I do not remember the last time Tinsley has even run a single pick and roll. Our bigs screen poorly. Our guards can't penetrate. Carroll is the ONLY wing who cuts with any sort of gusto.
Still wondering how any of this reasoning is retarded. Please expound further. TIA
-George
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
Wow, impressive, especially considering Bogut's barely played (9 games this year), Curry's a poster boy for injuries (he's played just 73 out of 117 games or 62% the last two years with about four of those games being ones he exited early) and Barnes has been simply solid off the bench. Let's just ignore though that everyone here said Lee sucked and played worse D than Booze a couple years back. Let's just ignore that many if not most thought that Curry couldn't run the point in this league. Let's just ignore said injuries and youth.
If Ty was their coach, they'd be lucky to even hover around .500. They'd probably be sitting around 24-27.
I'm not sure you're understanding most people's complaint. It's not that we're some championship caliber team being held back by Corbin, it's that we are very much an average team with guys that need to develop. Instead, we're laying down a huge sacrifice in development for absolutely marginal present benefit, at best. In light of Corbin trying his damnedest to 'win at all costs' he's making some incredibly dumb decisions that are certainly open to critique considering he/they view the 'win now' (misnomer -- their term, really) method as being beneficial and that we should suffer through the BS so that we may reap the reward of an exciting first round exit.
/run-on sentence
/run-on sentence
GVC
Well-Known Member
The initial post I responded to used the Chicago game as an example of a persistent problem: An inability to close games when Al, the Jazz's only iso threat, is shutdown. Favors does not always have 5 fouls down the stretch. In games (Miami, Chicago) where the defense is collapsing on Al, Ty could try putting Al/Marvin/Tinsley on the bench in favor of players who run the court, defend and play off the ball better. You claim that the team will fall apart without Al down the stretch. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a single game in which Ty has tried something different, so we can only speculate.
George
Banned
How many games has Curry played THIS year?? Not sure why you're referencing previous years, as Golden State has been irrelevant in every other year you cited (which only strengthens my point).
PS: People complained about Boozer's defense after having our asses handed to us by the Lakers. Lee is lucky that he has Bogut to back him up-- Booz had Memo. Not sure what else the **** you're talking about.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Did you not post this? Is this not what I responded to? How can we possibly know what would happen with Al on the bench down the stretch? How has the team done with Al on the bench or in street clothes? Does the existing evidence support your conclusion at all?
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Lee's been so fortunate to have Bogut played limited time in nine games this year. Good job, Copernicus.
George
Banned
a) Tinsley was on the bench in Chicago.
b) Marvin almost never closes when Hayward isn't injured-- unless he is having an especially good-game.
c) No player on this Jazz team has shown any sort of consistency to put points up against top level defenses in the clutch, other than Al Jefferson. Millsap would fit this category if he had a PG like DWill. Obviously we are lacking this.
George
Banned
I was referring to the playoffs coming up, idiot. Note the Laker reference. Biggs who play no defense are exposed in the playoffs. See Boozer, Al, etc etc.
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
That makes complete and utter sense.
GVC
Well-Known Member
We've (for the most part) tried one thing in the clutch this season: Dump it into Al or Paul. Both have done well on the whole. Hayward's clutch stats are also quite good this season (although I imagine the variance in performance is also much higher). What might happen if Al weren't involved in these clutch situations, we can't know because Al has never been on the bench at the end of close games (he is the only player for whom this is true). Do you have any data to support your conclusion?
George
Banned
Soft bigs can put up stellar numbers and help their team get to the playoffs-- until their weaknesses are exposed to the fullest of extents. You say that Lee is somehow leading GS to the playoffs despite worse defense than Boozer-- while certainly not true (they're a wash), Boozer never had troubles leading us to the playoffs either. Even in the playoffs, he had lots of success. Our consistent headbutt in the Lakers (with what, 3 playoff series losses in a row) are what caused the Boozer-malaise.
What I am saying, is that Lee is in a similar situation, where his production is astounding, but his defense will be complemented by a ALL-NBA defender in Bogut.
In summary: Soft defense from a PF can easily carry a team to the playoffs.
-George
1. Haven't you noticed the various derivative plays the Jazz have been running (especially late in games) that contain several screen options before the ball goes into Al from new looks? Ty is fixing the problem that is young talent and players who can't dominate their defenders.
2. As much as I hate to watch it, Jazz opponents have been going to this silly *** NFL-like prevent defense during the last 5 minutes. They're going away from what works (doubling and tripling AJ) and giving Jefferson space to succeed or fail. I'll take that against most teams. I also expect Thibbideau to do something different and apparently he did just that. I can't blame Corbin for going with what works most of the time though.
Yes, that's what I'm doing.
Nice backpeddle. Care to wrap that turd up in new gift paper? I'm dying to hear why Corbin would have ruined Shaq putting up what were possibly the very best two seasons ever to go along with 28 ppg Kobe and just about as good a supporting cast as you could dream up.
I'm also dying to read you explain away how Jackson succeeded in motivating Shaq and Kobe in 2003-2004 like you've already claimed.