Nets think they can sign Deron in 2012

[David Stern]

I'm more than convinced Utah is gonna make T-shawn their #1 target during the offseason.. to replace AK

Who the hell is T-Shawn?

 

[billyshelby]

Let's play a game.

You mean like Malone, Artest, Barnes, Arenas '08 took an offer 16 million less than 2 days earlier, Paul Pierce opted out and then took less money, add Ray Allen to that list, Ilgauskas, Haslem, LeBron, Wade, and Bosh? Shaq took $25mm off in '05 so they could get enough around him and Wade in '06.

Thanks for the strawman burning party.

Thanks for the Exception Proves The Rule Argument. You might want to check your examples, though. Pierce, and to a much lesser extent, Allen, are good examples. Pierce basically agreed to tear up his deal to keep the Big 3 together. Arenas took a few pennies off his deal in what was actually a 'national story' at the time, but hardly rates as any great act of charity. But you're going to throw Artest on there? Or Barnes who, if memory serves, could barely get a job? How much money do you think those guys left on the table exactly?

The biggest fallacy is the Heat argument. Both James and Bosh got their 6 year, 10% MAX deals. The hidden factor was they also had the 15% Trade kickers. So all 3 are making almost exactly what they would have made in a state with no income tax.

Now, should I go back over the last 15 years and list every player who went tooth and nail for every cent even if it meant signing on dog teams? Because that could be a long list.

 

[Sneakers]

Who the hell is T-Shawn?

Prince.. and you call yourself a Pistons fan

 

[franklin]

Thanks for the Exception Proves The Rule Argument. You might want to check your examples, though. Pierce, and to a much lesser extent, Allen, are good examples. Pierce basically agreed to tear up his deal to keep the Big 3 together. Arenas took a few pennies off his deal in what was actually a 'national story' at the time, but hardly rates as any great act of charity. But you're going to throw Artest on there? Or Barnes who, if memory serves, could barely get a job? How much money do you think those guys left on the table exactly?

The biggest fallacy is the Heat argument. Both James and Bosh got their 6 year, 10% MAX deals. The hidden factor was they also had the 15% Trade kickers. So all 3 are making almost exactly what they would have made in a state with no income tax.

Now, should I go back over the last 15 years and list every player who went tooth and nail for every cent even if it meant signing on dog teams? Because that could be a long list.

Wrong. You don't understand the CBA like you think you do. James is making 14.5 mm this year. He made 14.41 last year. Forget the 10.5% max per year raise. James, Bosh and Wade were all eligible for a deal up to 30% of the salary cap, or roughly $17.4mm the first year. Wade may have been eligible for more based on last year's salary, but I don't know and it doesn't matter. He signed for almost $3mm less the first year.

Arenas shaving $25 million isn't pennies. Nice try. And though you ignored Shaq's huge cut, he's still on the list.
Add Tim Duncan to that list, who took a cut so Spurs could resign Ginobli in '07.

There are exceptions whether it's a rule or not. The only issue here is Dwight Howard leaving money on the table for a championship makes all the sense in the world but doesn't fit into your dogma so you're not going to consider it a possibility no matter what facts are thrown in your face. Keep shutting your ears and thumping your bible.

 

[billyshelby]

Wrong. You don't understand the CBA like you think you do. James is making 14.5 mm this year. He made 14.41 last year. Forget the 10.5% max per year raise. James, Bosh and Wade were all eligible for a deal up to 30% of the salary cap, or roughly $17.4mm the first year. Wade may have been eligible for more based on last year's salary, but I don't know and it doesn't matter. He signed for almost $3mm less the first year.

Arenas shaving $25 million isn't pennies. Nice try. And though you ignored Shaq's huge cut, he's still on the list.
Add Tim Duncan to that list, who took a cut so Spurs could resign Ginobli in '07.

There are exceptions whether it's a rule or not. The only issue here is Dwight Howard leaving money on the table for a championship makes all the sense in the world but doesn't fit into your dogma so you're not going to consider it a possibility no matter what facts are thrown in your face. Keep shutting your ears and thumping your bible.

I finally looked up the Big Three contract situation and you're right on that. I stand corrected. As to the rest of your argument, it basically amounts to proving eclipses occur and then wanting to discuss them in the same conversation as whether it's going to be sunny or rainy tomorrow. For every one exception you can point to, I can show you 1,000 guys who took the best offer and/or forced their teams to pony up as much as possible to retain their services.

What this all means is 999 times out of a 1,000 I'm right about what NBA players do when signing contracts. But 1 out of 1000 times I'm a bible thumping dogmatist who can't see straight. Hopefully one day I'll learn how to open my eyes like you.

 

[franklin]

I finally looked up the Big Three contract situation and you're right on that. I stand corrected. As to the rest of your argument, it basically amounts to proving eclipses occur and then wanting to discuss them in the same conversation as whether it's going to be sunny or rainy tomorrow. For every one exception you can point to, I can show you 1,000 guys who took the best offer and/or forced their teams to pony up as much as possible to retain their services.

What this all means is 999 times out of a 1,000 I'm right about what NBA players do when signing contracts. But 1 out of 1000 times I'm a bible thumping dogmatist who can't see straight. Hopefully one day I'll learn how to open my eyes like you.

Again, I understand what you're saying and said so earlier. I would even bet money you're right and Howard stays. But you're blowing things way out of proportion. Claiming you could put up 1000 instances is sensationalistic. There are only roughly 500 players in the game at any given time. We're also talking max money guys and not your average or even above average names. What does that leave us with? 7 max players per off season is being generous. That's 70 situations maximum over the last decade. This tells me it's reasonable to believe a guy might turn down a little money to chase a championship. I think the Miami Heat situation will encourage more to change teams.

Will the Jazz land Howard? Highly unlikely. However, there are plenty of reasons Howard should seriously consider Utah as a winning destination.