OK, bro.
Never Trump
- Thread starter colton
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OK, bro.
This article, written by Christopher Hitchens, who died nearly five years ago, has nothing to do with the timing of Comey's amorphous letter and announcement, which have obviously affected the election, and therefore seem to be a violation of the Hatch Act. If Clinton has broken the law, then she needs to be brought to justice, but the FBI should not interfere with our elections, period.
It wasn't rigging it was Democrat leaders not wanting a non Democrat to win their nomination. People in the party emailed about what they could do to try and prevent him from winning through campaigning and getting more behind Clinton. Something Republicans should have done to prevent Trump from winning... I know Bernie supporters where outraged but why would the Democrat leaders want a nominee like Bernie (who wouldn't support their platform) to win? Bernie should have ran independent or with a third party from the beginning in my opinion.
Red
Well-Known Member
Trump brings out the best in America....
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/suppress-black-vote-trump-campaign-230616#ixzz4Otz4jnvQ
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/suppress-black-vote-trump-campaign-230616#ixzz4Otz4jnvQ
Trump has been inching closer and closer to a political system that is void of branches of government with a dictator at its head who marshals the masses, if not de jure, de facto. Seeing how the Republican senators and congressmen/-women cowered to him and came back to endorse him after ***** gate out of fear for their bids was extremely telling. Various articles investigating the FBI's allegiance to Trump are disturbing to say the least. President Trump with a craven Republican senate and congress, rabid and violent followers, a law enforcement agency that is seemingly pro-Trump, and his Banana Republic proclivities and inspiration make this a volatile and depressing situation for this country.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
It's weird that the FBI didn't ever investigate Obama. Them being agents of the GOP and all.
It's hard to tell your point because you don't state it. Either way, all of my points are still 100% relevant. "Agents of the GOP" are your words, and I'm not going to interpret your statement, so if you want to state it, good on ya.
Comey has been hesitant throughout to report on the investigation into Trump's Russian ties, because "It would interfere with the election."
Less than two weeks before the election, he reopens the email case because of emails that may or may not implicate Clinton. Either way, damage done.
This is precisely why we have the Hatch Act.
Bill Weld, who was head of the criminal division of the Justice Department and who is currently Johnson's VP running mate, is appalled at Comey's actions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-g79ikEZ_k
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
I have already posted my take in the Clinton thread. Comey is covering his own ***. In that it appears that I agree with governor Weld. The silly article which you posted portrayed it as if Comey was involved in some alt-right conspiracy. That's stupid. If comey had not requested a warrant it would look like he was covering for Clinton. If he did not inform congress it would look like he had lied to them earlier this year when he said that the investigation was over. He was between a rock and a hard place and he chose to cover his ***. That's it. Comey is not some agent of Breitbart. He is not out to get Clinton. By the letter of the law he could have recommended charges. If he was just a partisan hack he would have. He is in an unenviable position and like most people would he chose to put himself first. Is that a good thing? NO, but don't make it into more than that.
As far as the link I provided it was simply pointing out that Clinton is a piece of ****. Trump has not been convicted of a crime but that is not evidence of him not being a piece of ****. It drives me nuts that those that support Clinton would point to her lack of a criminal record as evidence of her non piece of ****ness.
The point about Obama is obvious. Despite all the vitriol leveled against him there has been no accusations of his shady dealings from the legitimate press. There has been no investigation. There has been no damn e-mail controversy. Yeah, there is no evidence of criminal dealings in the e-mails regarding her Goldman Sachs speeches,for instance, but they do reveal her to be a 2 faced lying piece of ****.
Keep up the Trump hate. SRSLY, I love it and I'm all for it. Don't let up a bit. Please do not put yourself through the mental gymnastics, the wholesale surrender of your liberal values, and the acceptance of the Bill and Hillary martyrdom conspiracy theory that is required in order to defend the Clinton's. They're pieces of **** and I think, on some level, you know that.
A. Not my link, but Comey's timing is "inconceivable," as Bill Weld states.
B. Comey had no qualms about saving his reports on Trump's Russian ties because, by his own words, he did not want to interfere in the election (where was his fear of political repercussions then?), so why not do the same thing in this case with Clinton? There is ZERO evidence at this point, ZERO! Comey's underlings had known about these emails for weeks. It would have been so, so easy for him to have waited until the election was over. The notion that he was between a rock and a hard place is laughable. They don't have ANY evidence, even now. What new evidence was he reporting? Comey's not an idiot. He knew this would affect the election.
C. I know that the Clinton's have obfuscated many, many things, and may have broken the law. I don't have enough ego-centrism to say that I know everything that they've done that is wrong. I have to trust the judicial system. I'm not replacing that with the jury of Facebook and YouTube commenters. Dozens of FBI agents, lawyers, and the whole hoard of Republican bloodhounds over 30 years have never proven that the Clintons have broken the law (Bill's affair with Monica excluded), despite Hitchens' antipathy. I hold nothing against Trump that has not been proven. It’s too easy in this day and age to destroy someone with hearsay. I have countless 100% provable facts that Trump is the most dangerous and repulsive candidate in U.S. history. There is NO question about his actions and words.
D. With respect to Obama, it’s far easier to do what Comey did and sabotage an election than to bring charges against Obama, but I’ve never asserted that the FBI is in the pocket of the GOP. However, let’s say that Comey and others in the FBI did not want Clinton and are pro-Trump, because they feel she might do something like she did with her server again. Let’s just mention that we are taking a second look at the emails. Oh, Clinton’s down in the polls. Oh how’d that happen? Comey’s actions are “inconceivable.” They defy logic this close to the election.
E. I'm not a liberal at all by the way. I've voted consistently for both Democrats and Republicans. This has always been about saving this country from Trump. Either way, Comey's actions speak for themselves. His impartiality is the only logical answer, given the situation and facts. His greatest ally was the Hatch Act.
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♪alt13
Well-Known Member
First, sorry for attributing Red's link to you.
Second You do realize that Comey simply sent a letter to congress stating that they had found more e-mails and they were looking into it right? You do realize that regardless of whether Comey is pursuing a criminal investigation(he has not said this) he has to look into whether these e-mails contain classified info and who may have gained access to it? So yes he has to look into the e-mails. He has a responsibility to do so. That much we should agree on.
Should he have informed congress? He said that he would. He didn't run to the media making innuendos. He informed congress that they found more e-mails. Full stop, that's it. Had he not it would have leaked and he would have lost credibility and possibly been suspected of being involved in a cover up. He may have come under congressional investigation himself. It was selfish at worst.
Comey cannot tame the media. The timing of this happened to him not because of him.
Third when I spoke about liberal values I was not labeling you with a dirty word. I was not trying to put you into a neat political box. I suspected that it may be interpreted that way but I didn't care. The word has meaning outside of the shallow political discourse in this country. I will continue to use the word and I assure you that you should not take offense or think that I am trying to peg your political views down.
Red
Well-Known Member
I do think it's possible elements within the FBI are trying to aid Trump. I think there is a great deal of anti-Clinton sentiment within the FBI:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/03/fbi-leaks-hillary-clinton-james-comey-donald-trump
And, if Clinton is elected, impeachment should not come as a surprise:
https://inhomelandsecurity.com/hillary-clinton-constitutional-crisis/
Seems like a no win scenario to me. If peace in the land is the hope. Which is a pipe dream anyway, I'm sure. Elect Trump and we may have to find out the hard way what electing an ignoramus produces. Elect Clinton and initiate a constitutional crisis.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/03/fbi-leaks-hillary-clinton-james-comey-donald-trump
And, if Clinton is elected, impeachment should not come as a surprise:
https://inhomelandsecurity.com/hillary-clinton-constitutional-crisis/
Seems like a no win scenario to me. If peace in the land is the hope. Which is a pipe dream anyway, I'm sure. Elect Trump and we may have to find out the hard way what electing an ignoramus produces. Elect Clinton and initiate a constitutional crisis.
Best article I've read about Trump:
https://nymag.com/daily/intelligenc...-america-and-the-abyss.html?mid=twitter_nymag
https://nymag.com/daily/intelligenc...-america-and-the-abyss.html?mid=twitter_nymag
Red
Well-Known Member
Yep, she's not up for sainthood in my lifetime. Regardless of who wins, I expect the result will be increasing tumult and a climate as divisive as the Civil Rights/Vietnam era, maybe the worse since the American Civil War. I think we have only just begun to tear ourselves to pieces. We will need voices able to unite a divided nation. Don't know where they can be expected to come from at the moment.
This is what I'm claiming, i.e., that there is anti-Clinton sentiment within the FBI which has led to innocuous actions (on the face of it) that have benefited Trump. The actions are de facto pro Trump. Without any new evidence on the emails, the timing is "inconceivable," as Bill Weld says, and has without doubt affected the election.
LogGrad98
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What's funny about this is if she had never thought herself above the law in the first place by doing something like this, which technically in and of itself is illegal for the secretary of state, then there would be nothing for the FBI to throw out there at all regardless of their motive.
CNN just made some changes to their EC map. All bad for the left.
Utah went from toss up to leans R
New Hampshire went from leans D to toss up
Ohio went from toss up to lean R
Maine's 2nd District went from toss up to lean R
https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/04/poli...l-college-map-november-4-duplicate/index.html
NV, AZ, NH, FL, NC and 1 KS district are the toss ups.
She still has the edge as he needs to sweep the map to pull this off. She just needs 1
Utah went from toss up to leans R
New Hampshire went from leans D to toss up
Ohio went from toss up to lean R
Maine's 2nd District went from toss up to lean R
https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/04/poli...l-college-map-november-4-duplicate/index.html
NV, AZ, NH, FL, NC and 1 KS district are the toss ups.
She still has the edge as he needs to sweep the map to pull this off. She just needs 1
Red
Well-Known Member
I thank you for that, and even more, for leading me to an earlier piece by the author. Written at the time of the primaries, and particularly long, I could not put it down. By far, the best analysis of this moment in American democracy that I've come across this election season. Available as a link near the start of the article you posted, I clicked on it, and am sending it to all my friends. Best description of the rise of Trump I have read. Ya never know where to find illumination like this at times. Well worth the long read...
https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html
"The vital and valid lesson of the Trump phenomenon is that if the elites cannot govern by compromise, someone outside will eventually try to govern by popular passion and brute force."
That's never been my point at all. The Hatch Act was established for a reason, but it seems that Trump cares nothing for our institutions and procedures anyway during an election, so let's throw this one away too.