NFL Talk

[Cope]

As I said, one played in the SEC, one didn't. One won a National Championship, one didn't.

Ahh so lets see here... I could go so many ways but will just simply leave this with ya Torbin. How many SB rings in the past 20 years come from SEC QB's that won National Championships?

Again.. would have loved to see Pryor in Auburn's offense. I believe he would have put up just as good of numbers yet he is a supplemental 3rd rounder and people think that is too high yet Newton was the #1 pick and it was the right pick.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We are talking about who was the better college QB, not pro prospect. I don't think either is a good pro prospect, but even more so Terrel Pryor.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Pryor's complete garbage, stats and measureables or not. He sucked in big games against the best competition. There was an espn article about this a couple months ago but the drop off in his success and production in big games (bowl games, better conference teams) was noticeable while Newton's actually improved this past year in his bigger games vs. Oregon, South Carolina, Alabama, etc. Then, there's the human eye ball test and this is what it says. Pryor put nothing on the ball and made the easier, vanilla throws while the opposite can be true of Newton. I'm not saying they didn't give him easier routes too but his playbook was much more challenging as was his conference.

I'm not saying Newton is going to be great. Who knows. I like his chances though. There is a sort of It factor with him and he's much more Big Ben than Vince Young or Pryor according to virtually every article I read. Pryor on the other hand? Since Oakland drafted him, he has virtually no chance to succeed. That is, unless Al Davis dies. In all seriousness, I heard Pryor interviewed during the Giants-Bears pre-season game last night and I liked his honesty and seemingly, lack of ego. He seemed to have his head on straight and realize it's going to take a lot of work to become successful. Whether that translates I don't know, but I liked his overall tone of voice which seemed genuine.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

I also love how Cope seems to knock Newton for playing JUCO while he in fact was recruited and attended Florida but decided to transfer because some scrub named Tebow was so firmly entrenched there.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

We are talking about who was the better college QB, not pro prospect. I don't think either is a good pro prospect, but even more so Terrel Pryor.

Vick completed just 59.2% and 54% of his passes at Virginia Tech in his two years there. Newton far surpassed that in a much tougher conference. Keep that in mind. If he dedicates himself to the sport, I see no reason Newton can't succeed. Sure Vick's playmaking ability with his legs sets him apart and probably earns him an extra two wins a year. But he's turned into a solid throwing qb who would have had about 4,200 yards passing last year (on 62.6%) had he not been hurt. Obviously Carolina doesn't have Philly's weapons but in due time, maybe they will.

 

[The-Joker]

I also love how Cope seems to knock Newton for playing JUCO while he in fact was recruited and attended Florida but decided to transfer because some scrub named Tebow was so firmly entrenched there.

I believe he transferred because he was kicked off the team for stealing a laptop.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Actually, academic cheating moreso but that doesn't change the fact that he was recruited by one of the best two or three programs in the country and not some hack who attended a JUCO school because he didn't have the talent to go elsewhere.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

There are a ton of talented players in Junior Colleges throughout the nation. Many dont have the grades to make it into big name schools, so they take the JUCO route and transfer into a bigger school their junior year, very common.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

There are a ton of talented players in Junior Colleges throughout the nation. Many dont have the grades to make it into big name schools, so they take the JUCO route and transfer into a bigger school their junior year, very common.

This too.

Then there's the NAIA as well. Scottie Pippen and Leon Lett are just two examples of guys who thrived in the pros from such schools.

 

[Cope]

I also love how Cope seems to knock Newton for playing JUCO while he in fact was recruited and attended Florida but decided to transfer because some scrub named Tebow was so firmly entrenched there.

Actually he left mainly due to him getting caught stealing. Yes Tebow had part of it as well.

I didn't knock him.. please show me where. I just asked if it was from his ONE year at Auburn or his JUCO days. Again the topic was about Newton vs. Pryor and his Leadership Skills/Physically Imposing Body - which I don't see that much of a difference. My point is Pryor in a Spread offense would KILL offenses.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Actually he left mainly due to him getting caught stealing. Yes Tebow had part of it as well.

I didn't knock him.. please show me where. I just asked if it was from his ONE year at Auburn or his JUCO days. Again the topic was about Newton vs. Pryor and his Leadership Skills/Physically Imposing Body - which I don't see that much of a difference. My point is Pryor in a Spread offense would KILL offenses.

Why? His arm strength sucks. And the difference has already been stated. Pryor sucked against big time competition while Newton flourished, while in an infinitely tougher conference nonetheless.

 

[Cope]

Why? His arm strength sucks. And the difference has already been stated. Pryor sucked against big time competition while Newton flourished, while in an infinitely tougher conference nonetheless.

Pryor's arm strength sucks? How much have you watched him becuase I would argue that point with you all day. As a Michigan fan I unfortunately watched too much Ohio State football the past few years and arm strength was not the problem if you want to put things on Pryor.


Also what is this "him sucking in big games"? I look at last year adn even though his accuracy could have been better in the Miami game and Wisconsen game he played bad, he had many good games in big games. Even in that Miami game he had 100+ yards rushing and a TD.

VS. Arkansas last year
Pryor
14/25 - 221 Yards - 2 TD/0 INT - 15 Rushes - 115 Yards - 7.6 YPC - 0 TD


Newton
10/14 - 140 Yards - 1 TD/0 INT - 25 Rushes - 188 Yards - 7.52 YPC - 3 TD

Stats don't seem that far off vs. the same SEC competition

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Pryor's arm strength sucks? How much have you watched him becuase I would argue that point with you all day. As a Michigan fan I unfortunately watched too much Ohio State football the past few years and arm strength was not the problem if you want to put things on Pryor.


Also what is this "him sucking in big games"? I look at last year adn even though his accuracy could have been better in the Miami game and Wisconsen game he played bad, he had many good games in big games. Even in that Miami game he had 100+ yards rushing and a TD.

VS. Arkansas last year
Pryor
14/25 - 221 Yards - 2 TD/0 INT - 15 Rushes - 115 Yards - 7.6 YPC - 0 TD


Newton
10/14 - 140 Yards - 1 TD/0 INT - 25 Rushes - 188 Yards - 7.52 YPC - 3 TD

Stats don't seem that far off vs. the same SEC competition

Lol Michigan.

 

[Cope]

Lol Michigan.

Lol @ your response and you since you know you are backed into a corner and wrong

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Lol @ your response and you since you know you are backed into a corner and wrong

My team absolutely destroyed yours this past bowl game, so yeah. *Insert response about how Michigan use to be great* No one cares about 20 years ago. Which only supporst the dominace of the SEC. Michigan came into the bowl game with one of the top ranked offenses, I believe top ten in the nation in YPG, but could barely put up 14 points against what might have been the 5th or 6th best SEC team that year (in a high scoring game too).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Lol @ your response and you since you know you are backed into a corner and wrong

And if we are wrong about Pryor vs. Newton, then why did so many scouts/mangers/analyst agree that Newton is a first round pick (maybe not 1st overall, but definitely 1st round) and that Pryor wasn't even worth a 3rd round? Most people thought a 5th round at best would be used to get Pryor.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Vs. #12 Miami: 12 of 27, 1 TD, 0 INT, 233 yards
@ #18 Wisconsin: 14 of 28, 0 TD's, 1 INT, 156 yards
@ #20 Iowa: 18 of 33, 1 TD, 2 INT, 195 yards
Vs Arkansas: 14 of 25, 2 TD, 0 INT, 221 yards

58 of 113, 51.3%, 7.12 yards per attempt, 4 TD's, 3 INT

These are Pryor's numbers vs. the four ranked teams he played last year and these are awful. 51.3% and 7.12 yards per attempt is absolutely pathetic. The fact that he had nearly as many picks as he did touchdowns rings just as true.

Newton on the other hand...

vs. SC: 16 of 21, 158 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT
vs. Arkansas: 10 of 14, 140 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
vs. LSU: 10 of 16, 86 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT
@ Alabama: 13 of 20, 216 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
vs. SC: 17 of 28, 335 yards, 4 TD, 0 INT
vs. Oregon: 20 of 34, 265 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT

So Newton vs. his ranked teams, SEC teams, was 86 of 133, 64.6%, 1,200 yards, 9.02 per attempt, 12 TD, 1 INT

All numbers are infinitely better than Pryor's. I would bet his rushing is too but don't feel like tallying that up game to game. Get a clue dude. You have no idea what you're talking about. I watched Pryor a bunch of times and he floated balls to his receivers. He sucked in big games and choked when it mattered. Newton on the other hand was a Maestro. /

 

[Cope]

My team absolutely destroyed yours this past bowl game, so yeah. *Insert response about how Michigan use to be great* No one cares about 20 years ago. Which only supporst the dominace of the SEC. Michigan came into the bowl game with one of the top ranked offenses, I believe top ten in the nation in YPG, but could barely put up 14 points against what might have been the 5th or 6th best SEC team that year (in a high scoring game too).

Yay.. your team won a bowl game! You are really talking sh*t on last years Michigan team? I could have thrown for 300 yards against that defense that Rich Rod put together.

Shows exactally how you are...

When a defense can't stop anyone it puts you behind and Michigan the past few years couldn't play from behind. Robinson is not a passing QB (Thus the reason I would like to have seen our #2 step up this year but it won't happen). The defense will be back in a few years with who we got as our D Coordinator. (Hurry look it up). Michigan as it stands right now has a top 5 recruiting class for next year and what turned into a decient (Top 20) recruiting class this past year when Hoke stepped in.

Miss St. and Vandy just need to be dropped from the SEC all together - Add A&M and Florida State and call it good.

 

[Cope]

Vs. #12 Miami: 12 of 27, 1 TD, 0 INT, 233 yards
@ #18 Wisconsin: 14 of 28, 0 TD's, 1 INT, 156 yards
@ #20 Iowa: 18 of 33, 1 TD, 2 INT, 195 yards
Vs Arkansas: 14 of 25, 2 TD, 0 INT, 221 yards

58 of 113, 51.3%, 7.12 yards per attempt, 4 TD's, 3 INT

These are Pryor's numbers vs. the four ranked teams he played last year and these are awful. 51.3% and 7.12 yards per attempt is absolutely pathetic. The fact that he had nearly as many picks as he did touchdowns rings just as true.

Newton on the other hand...

vs. SC: 16 of 21, 158 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT
vs. Arkansas: 10 of 14, 140 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
vs. LSU: 10 of 16, 86 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT
@ Alabama: 13 of 20, 216 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
vs. SC: 17 of 28, 335 yards, 4 TD, 0 INT
vs. Oregon: 20 of 34, 265 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT

So Newton vs. his ranked teams, SEC teams, was 86 of 133, 64.6%, 1,200 yards, 9.02 per attempt, 12 TD, 1 INT

All numbers are infinitely better than Pryor's. I would bet his rushing is too but don't feel like tallying that up game to game. Get a clue dude. You have no idea what you're talking about. I watched Pryor a bunch of times and he floated balls to his receivers. He sucked in big games and choked when it mattered. Newton on the other hand was a Maestro. /

Again, for like the 4th time I believe. Newton in that SPREAD offense will put up better numbers but Pryor wasn't that far off. I said from teh start that I believe Pryor would have put up similar numbers that Newton did if he was at Auburn. As for the draft - #1 pick vs. 3rd round Supplementary draft pick - I simply said that its worth the gamble as he has all the measurables that Newton does.

Also Newton is based off of 1 year with Auburn. If they lose the game against Oregon does he go #1? If by chance they don't have the big comeback in the regular season does he go #1?

If I'm a GM I will take Pryor with the 3rd rounder in a Supp Draft (Guaranteed 600k and at 2.5 Million over 4 years) vs. Newton at the #1 pick and guaranteed how many millions? They are not that far off regarding their skills and I can see Pryor beign more of a dual threat QB than Newton as well. Unfortunately he is now with the Black Hole and like what was said... until Al Davis dies he wont florish (If he ever does).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yay.. your team won a bowl game! You are really talking sh*t on last years Michigan team? I could have thrown for 300 yards against that defense that Rich Rod put together.

Shows exactally how you are...

When a defense can't stop anyone it puts you behind and Michigan the past few years couldn't play from behind. Robinson is not a passing QB (Thus the reason I would like to have seen our #2 step up this year but it won't happen). The defense will be back in a few years with who we got as our D Coordinator. (Hurry look it up). Michigan as it stands right now has a top 5 recruiting class for next year and what turned into a decient (Top 20) recruiting class this past year when Hoke stepped in.

Miss St. and Vandy just need to be dropped from the SEC all together - Add A&M and Florida State and call it good.

You Mad.