Nikola Mirotic
- Thread starter BabyPeterzz
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On a more serious note regarding Mirotic:
He's played very well over a small sample this year that he should expectedly come down from. Many people have referenced his 46.5% from deep and feel this is unsustainable as his career average is 36.1% and he will likely come down to 37-38%. Perhaps so. However, even if he dropped back down to that percentage I don't think people appreciate the full impact that would have. Even though his career % is sub-40%, he is a very high volume three point shooter -- attempting 8.5 per 36, not far off from 8.1 per 36 last year and 7.6 the year before. To put that into perspective, there are very few guys (who actually play) who are getting up that many attempts -- Harden, Curry, Hood, etc. The dude's shooting mechanics are real and he's swishing most of his shots. Even if shooting a lower percentage than he currently is, simply having his volume while maintaining respectable percentages is a serious floor spreading factor. Dirk is a career 38.3%, Kevin Love a career 36.8%, and Memo a career 37.5%. None of them are getting up nearly as many attempts per minute as he is. I'm not making any comparison of these other guys, but just pointing out three guys who are known to pretty hot outside shooters and floor spacers, despite shooting less than what the eyeball test would predict, and how that would really be a huge boon to complementing exactly what we need. I'm also more inclined to believe his trajectory is trending north of 40% -- he averaged 39.7% in 4 years of Euroleague (214/539).
Imagine the spacing dividends paid to Gobert and Mitchell by having the highest volume 3 point shooting big man (and it ain’t close) present on the floor at the 4 spot.
He's played very well over a small sample this year that he should expectedly come down from. Many people have referenced his 46.5% from deep and feel this is unsustainable as his career average is 36.1% and he will likely come down to 37-38%. Perhaps so. However, even if he dropped back down to that percentage I don't think people appreciate the full impact that would have. Even though his career % is sub-40%, he is a very high volume three point shooter -- attempting 8.5 per 36, not far off from 8.1 per 36 last year and 7.6 the year before. To put that into perspective, there are very few guys (who actually play) who are getting up that many attempts -- Harden, Curry, Hood, etc. The dude's shooting mechanics are real and he's swishing most of his shots. Even if shooting a lower percentage than he currently is, simply having his volume while maintaining respectable percentages is a serious floor spreading factor. Dirk is a career 38.3%, Kevin Love a career 36.8%, and Memo a career 37.5%. None of them are getting up nearly as many attempts per minute as he is. I'm not making any comparison of these other guys, but just pointing out three guys who are known to pretty hot outside shooters and floor spacers, despite shooting less than what the eyeball test would predict, and how that would really be a huge boon to complementing exactly what we need. I'm also more inclined to believe his trajectory is trending north of 40% -- he averaged 39.7% in 4 years of Euroleague (214/539).
Imagine the spacing dividends paid to Gobert and Mitchell by having the highest volume 3 point shooting big man (and it ain’t close) present on the floor at the 4 spot.
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Nah. You're underselling how good Ginobili was. By a lot. They are not comparable.
If he really wants to play for Utah that badly, it makes more sense just to wait his contract out and offer him in 2019.
Think LoPo is holding?
He hasn't meshed with Gobert because Gobert isn't on the court. As for his play style possibly clashing with Gobert and DM longterm, it's not really a problem since he's a FA in 2019,
Rubio doesn't need to be traded. His contract isn't hurting us at all and trading him wouldn't bring much in return. It makes more sense to keep him, make some other trades, get the roster healthy, and see if time and better team chemistry brings him out of this funk.
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His funk? His career long funk?
I agree we don’t need to trade him but if you can get off his contract we could allocate his salary number to something that fits.
If he is here we almost have to start him... I think DM should start at pg because that is the future. Do it now he is ready.
fishonjazz
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Helluva post all around but the quoted part was my favorite part. Thanks for doing the research. If he can shoot the 3 like those guys then that would be amazing (i think its almost a certainty that he can shoot the three as good as those players). And none of those guys played great defense either. Lets not forget that he is also averaging over 10 rebounds per game per 36. Dirk nowitzki played 20 seasons and never once averaged 10 rebounds per 36. Memo played 10 seasons and never averaged 10 rebounds per 36 either. Of course Love has and he is a great rebounder. All three of these guys were all stars.Dirk is a career 38.3%, Kevin Love a career 36.8%, and Memo a career 37.5%.
Get him DL. Overpay a bit if you have to. Im fully on board getting this guy. My only concern is that i wish he was on a longer contract.
A couple things on that:
I left off career 3PA per 36:
Mirotic 7.6 3PA/36 (high 8.5)
Dirk 3.5 3PA/36 (high 5.6 this year)
Love 4.8 3PA/36 (high 7.4 last year)
Memo 3.1 3PA/36 (high 4.5 [I'm not counting the 5.7 he averaged in 17 games with NJ)
His rebounding rate is higher than any other perimeter big not named Kevin Love, even if he comes back down to reality a bit. His career RP36 is 8.5, with obviously an upward trend. Here's how that compares to other stretch bigs (career):
Mirotic 8.5 RP36
Kevin Love 12.6 RP36
Ryan Anderson 7.4 RP36
Aaron Gordon 8.0 RP36
Serge Ibaka 9 RP36
Kuzma 7.2 RP36
Dirk 8.1 RP36
Lyles 7.9 RP36
Porzingis 8.3 RP36
Those are the active guys that come to mind. His career RPM beat all those guys but Love and Ibaka, and if you're generalizing his current sample he blows them all out of the water sans Love. Terrible rebounding is my pet peeve with stretch bigs. He doesn't grab as many offensive rebounds (he's spreading the floor), but I'd let Rudy clean those up, and then they can both grab the defensive glass.
LoPo
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Damn you guys can be unnecessarily harsh. A role is not a particular player. Hood is 25 and can be a good 6th man if groomed correctly. Manu was a legend in his role. I'm not saying Hood will be Manu, I'm saying he can be a premiere 6th man.
Find solutions not stretches to troll.
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Find solutions not stretches to troll.
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fishonjazz
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Ya I'm sold. Give up what you have to to get him.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
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The link below is an article about the bulls improvement since Nikola's return, and could mean the jazz will have to give more to get him. Thoughts. As of now it looks like the jazz will be in the lotto, if so, I'd much rather have that then Mirotic. He's not even guaranteed to be here long term. I'm not ready to give up a first for him.
https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/...easy-win-bulls-improvement-bad-news-for-jazz/
https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/...easy-win-bulls-improvement-bad-news-for-jazz/
I think our current draft position is obscured by an absence of Rudy. However, if we stubbornly continue the Rubio/Favors/Rudy lineup without any real spacing, we could still drop a lot of games by poor starts. I think we forget how unpredictable drafting is. We picked up Mitchell and Gobert so we feel confident we can land good guys, but just remember that just because a draft looks good or guys look promising, it doesn't translate. Last year Lonzo looked like a sure thing. Nobody had given any thought to Donovan and Kuzma. We can also end up with an Exum or Kanter. Mirotic is a bird in hand. Our issue moving forward is we need a floor spacer next to Gobert. This isn't negotiable -- we need a legit floor spacer. Take a look over the guys who can do that and you'll realize our chances of obtaining one is quite slim. Sure, we could draft one, but I don't think people realize how unusual grabbing an immediate contributor like Mitchell or Kuzma is. If you've got the chance to grab a legit complementary piece to Gobert, I'd say you've got to take it.
Other guys not attainable for one reason or another:
Love
Anderson
Ibaka
Gordon
Parker
Saric
Kuzma
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We aren't trading a first for him... we may acquire a first with Favs, hood, or someone else that we would give to them.
They want a first... I want a Ferrari... we don't always get what we want.
They want a first... I want a Ferrari... we don't always get what we want.
Spinoza
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I agree with your assessment of Hood. He's not going to be worth the price tag. Favors is probably gone, sadly for us fans of his. However, I'm not sold at all that Mirotic is the answer.
It seems like a legitimate possibility that Mirotic gets cut by either the Bulls (doesn't have his option picked up for any number of reasons), or the team he's traded to does indeed acquire him in order to shed salary. He could even ask to be released?
Could the Jazz just go and sign him outright this offseason or next, thus spending 0 assets, and assuring that this team ends the season as poorly as they should at this point?
Could the Jazz just go and sign him outright this offseason or next, thus spending 0 assets, and assuring that this team ends the season as poorly as they should at this point?
They want a draft pick. They are trying to use the interest in Mirotic (reportedly Portland, Utah, and Detroit as the big 3 w/ Boston and Minnesota as interested) to get a first rounder in a bidding war. They wont do Favors for Mirotic straight up.
In theory we could sign him. But I don't think we're going to finish terrible unless we run heavy with Favors/Gobert/Rubio. In any case, we'll put together a run and, I think, at worst, will be just outside the playoffs. May as well make it and attempt to compete, which I think a healthy Gobert and Mirotic will do. We're a .400 team. We won't be a .400 team the rest of the year.
They want a first round pick. They also want to tank. They don't see any more value in Favors because he'd just be an expiring, which is something they could turn Mirotic into if they just don't pick up his option. However, if they got some second rounders and at least got away from a guy wanting out, then that could provide more benefit than letting him expire.