NON-JAZZ NBA PLAYOFF thread

[jazz4life1992]

Ayton has significantly improved but he also benefits much more from his teammates than Rudy on both ends of the floor. Suns play tough perimeter defense, he would never be able to carry the same defensive load Rudy has to. On offense he is of course more versatile than Rudy but here also he has CP3 who is a master of midrange/lob and involves him better than our guards do with Rudy.

What? Ayton is under a ton of pressure each game to stay out of foul trouble. The Suns literally have no one behind him at center that can mimic his impact on defense. Saric and Kaminsky on defense is a nightmare, which is why everyone thought the Lakers would destroy them.

 

[fishonjazz]

Jingles is a horrible defender and Bogey had one good defensive performance. When Kawhi went out Bogey got cooked

Yet jingles and bogey played in almost every game this season and we had the 3rd rated defense in the league. We were only 3rd cause Rudy had to come out sometimes. Did you know that when Rudy was on the court this season we had the 4th best defense of all time? When he was off the court we had the 28th best defense in the league this year

Our defense is simply fantastic when we don't play against small ball. Suns don't play small ball.

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[fishonjazz]

I dont get the point you're trying to prove. Suns are feasting on the small ball where we couldn't yet you're saying we're better than them? I'm confused

I'm saying we could beat the suns.
And the suns aren't feasting small ball lol. They aren't really feasting on anything unless you consider scoring 84 points feasting. Zubac is playing more minutes than he has ever played before.

Now can the suns feast on small ball? Yes they can. Jazz don't play small ball though so that isn't really relevant when discussing a jazz vs Suns series

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[fishonjazz]

At this point would anybody on this board not take Ayton over Rudy? Ayton is a superior rebounder, scorer, and still a great defender (please spare me the regular season stats BS)

I would take Ayton. I usually take #1 picks over #27 picks.

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[fishonjazz]

Ugh, its not a simple as that. The Suns present more challenges than the Clippers do. They have just as many (more because Kawhi is out) 2 way wing players, and they have arguably the 3rd best offensive center that is playing in these playoffs (yes, and I can't believe I am saying that).

The Suns beat a fully healthy Jazz team twice this year, while the Jazz swept the Clippers in the regular season.

And CP3 torched the Jazz defense in the 2nd game, while Booker had his way in both games (with the Jazz fully healthy). Royce O'Neal isn't Pat Beverley as far as a Booker stopper/irritant, and I think its much more likely Booker's broken nose has slowed him down in this series than Beverley just shutting him down.

When both teams were healthy and were peaking they went to overtime in Phoenix. All I have been saying is that jazz vs Suns would be a great 7 games series that either team could win

Has the clippers series tainted your view of the jazz so badly that you have just wiped the rest of the 78 games from your memory to the point that you now think of the jazz as some garbage team and the suns as the Jordan bulls teams or something?

If so maybe you would find the suns fan forums more to your liking

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[fishonjazz]

If you have watched the current series, Ayton is a fantastic rebounder and yes better than Rudy. He doesn't get pushed away from the boards like Rudy does. Of course, Rudy is the better defender, at least so far as rim protection. But who would you rather have if you could do a straight-up trade right now?

See, now the recency bias is getting ridiculous.
Rudy and Ayton played almost the exact same amount of minutes per game. Rudy averaged 13.5 rebounds. Ayton averaged 10.5 rebounds.

Yet Ayton is the better rebounder.

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[fishonjazz]

You forget that he also can actually shoot.

Can you provide any stats? Like shooting percentage from 15 feet or something. How does he do from three?
Yes he can shoot better than Rudy.
Rudy averaged 14.2 points per game
Ayton averaged 14.3.

Huge advantage with Aytons great shooting as you can see.

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[fishonjazz]

What? Ayton is under a ton of pressure each game to stay out of foul trouble. The Suns literally have no one behind him at center that can mimic his impact on defense. Saric and Kaminsky on defense is a nightmare, which is why everyone thought the Lakers would destroy them.

Gobert is under just as much pressure to stay out of foul trouble
The jazz have the 4th best defense of all time when Rudy is on the game
28th best defense this season when favors is in. The jazz don't want Rudy to come out if the game.

Rudy and Ayton play the exact same amount of minutes per game btw.

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[jazz4life1992]

When both teams were healthy and were peaking they went to overtime in Phoenix. All I have been saying is that jazz vs Suns would be a great 7 games series that either team could win

Has the clippers series tainted your view of the jazz so badly that you have just wiped the rest of the 78 games from your memory to the point that you now think of the jazz as some garbage team and the suns as the Jordan bulls teams or something?

If so maybe you would find the suns fan forums more to your liking

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I'm objective about the Jazz, and am not just going to be blind and ignore the problems with Utah as a team. The regular season hid many faults about Utah's roster and depth. Obviously the Mitchell injury, then the Conley injury were both huge factors.

And the Clippers legit had chances to win both games in Utah, similar to what they had in Phoenix.

But Phoenix didn't fold on the road in LA like the Jazz did. So no, my view hasn't changed, I've been fairly consistent on my criticism and worries about Utah's roster in the regular season and postseason.

 

[Getting Traded]

See, now the recency bias is getting ridiculous.
Rudy and Ayton played almost the exact same amount of minutes per game. Rudy averaged 13.5 rebounds. Ayton averaged 10.5 rebounds.

Yet Ayton is the better rebounder.

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I'm basing this on what I have seen in the Clippers series. Ayton has improved a ton.

 

[Sean]

Its not unheard of. I mean even the Warriors in 2015 were a "surprise" to make it all the way to the Finals (even though they had made the playoffs in previous years).

The talent isn't the same, but if they can keep Ayton, Booker, CP3, Bridges, Johnson, and Payne somehow together for another 2-3 years, they are going to be hell to play.

All of their guys except for CP3 are under 25 years old. except Payne who I think is 26 (?).

I think it becomes a surprise for Jazz fans because we're used to it taking multiple seasons of playoff appearances before we even build a real contender. It's happened once: 2007 and that was a fluke due to the Warriors upsetting the Mavs in the fist round.

Pretty much everything else has been a chore to get to a level where the Suns are currently.

When the Jazz made the playoffs for the first time in franchise history, it took 12 years before they were able to get within a game of the NBA Finals. It took 13 years before they finally made the NBA Finals.

I think so much of this comes as a surprise to Jazz fans because of just how long the franchise has been mediocre, at best, in the playoffs. We're looking at 20+ years and only once advancing to the West Finals (again, on a fluke). Despite all the regular season success we're likely the worst performing playoff team over the last 20 years for those who've made the playoffs at least half that time.

 

[Getting Traded]

Another observation is that Batum is exactly the guy the Jazz needed. He is a lot better than I expected, on both ends of the court. Very smart and still very athletic. Did you see him block two of JC's outside shots in a row, though on one he was called for a ticy-tacky foul.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm objective about the Jazz, and am not just going to be blind and ignore the problems with Utah as a team. The regular season hid many faults about Utah's roster and depth. Obviously the Mitchell injury, then the Conley injury were both huge factors.

And the Clippers legit had chances to win both games in Utah, similar to what they had in Phoenix.

But Phoenix didn't fold on the road in LA like the Jazz did. So no, my view hasn't changed, I've been fairly consistent on my criticism and worries about Utah's roster in the regular season and postseason.

Look, we all agree (including me) that clippers are a horrible matchup for the jazz and that the jazz are poor against small ball.
That doesn't mean that the jazz can't win in the playoffs.
Do the suns play a traditional big or do they play small ball?
How about the Memphis grizzlies in the playoffs? Did the jazz suck against them?

The jazz weren't exposed as a poor playoff team. They were exposed as playing poor against small ball. Those 2 things aren't the exact same thing. There are playoff series without small ball more often than with small ball

Did you know the jazz were the number 1 team in the NBA against the top 10 teams in the NBA this season?

I'm speaking about suns vs jazz specifically in the context of this discussion. Therefore I don't really care that the suns didn't fold against the clippers since the clippers and jazz are 2 different teams.

Again, jazz suck against small ball. Suns don't play small ball

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[fishonjazz]

I'm basing this on what I have seen in the Clippers series. Ayton has improved a ton.

It's one series against a team lacking quality bigs. Don't forget that there were like 80 other games played by the suns this season.

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[l Abach l]

Look, we all agree (including me) that clippers are a horrible matchup for the jazz and that the jazz are poor against small ball.
That doesn't mean that the jazz can't win in the playoffs.
Do the suns play a traditional big or do they play small ball?
How the Memphis grizzlies in the playoffs? Did the jazz suck against them?

Did you know the jazz were the number 1 team in the NBA against the top 10 teams in the NBA this season?

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My man regular season stats don't mean anything in the playoffs / 7 game series where teams make adjustments... you sound like Locke. Memphis was a 9 seed that played the Jazz tougher than they should have. The Clippers blew us out in 3 out of the 6 games.. Suns likely make adjustments and expose the Jazz's weaknesses the same way the Clippers did

 

[jazz4life1992]

Look, we all agree (including me) that clippers are a horrible matchup for the jazz and that the jazz are poor against small ball.
That doesn't mean that the jazz can't win in the playoffs.
Do the suns play a traditional big or do they play small ball?
How the Memphis grizzlies in the playoffs? Did the jazz suck against them?

Did you know the jazz were the number 1 team in the NBA against the top 10 teams in the NBA this season?

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The Suns can play both traditional and small-ball, something that the Clippers can do too, which makes it tough for Utah. The Suns obviously "prefer" not to play small-ball as their main style of play.

Utah was excellent offensively against Memphis, but terrible on defense... Something many of us were worried about before the Clippers series.

Number 1 against the top 10 teams in this regular season means very little when considering the overall context of COVID protocols and injuries that happened. A lot of people forget, a huge factor to our success in the regular season was staying healthy, while other teams had significant COVID and injury issues (Lakers obviously is the biggest example). Unfortunately for the Jazz, their injury issues happened in the later stages in the season, for both Mitchell and Conley.

 

[fishonjazz]

My man regular season stats don't mean anything in the playoffs / 7 game series where teams make adjustments... you sound like Locke. Memphis was a 9 seed that played the Jazz tougher than they should have. The Clippers blew us out in 3 out of the 6 games.. Suns likely make adjustments and expose the Jazz's weaknesses the same way the Clippers did

What do you mean regular season means nothing.
Which seeds won in the first round? (Answer? The higher seeds won every series except 1) The higher seeds or the lower seeds? Why didn't the lower seeds just play playoff basketball and make adjustments and beat all the higher seeds?

Why do the higher seeds typically go farther in the playoffs than the lower seeds?

It's because the higher seeds are generally better regular season teams and better playoff teams as well. Because much of what makes a team great in the regular season translates to the playoffs

Jazz have a weakness. Small ball.
Lakers, suns, grizzlies, nuggets, Dallas, Portland, all mostly play a regular big. Jazz got a bad matchup against clippers.
Clippers aren't the suns. They are 2 different teams. I think the jazz could beat the suns. You think they can't. Agree to disagree

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[fishonjazz]

The Suns can play both traditional and small-ball, something that the Clippers can do too, which makes it tough for Utah. The Suns obviously "prefer" not to play small-ball as their main style of play.

Utah was excellent offensively against Memphis, but terrible on defense... Something many of us were worried about before the Clippers series.

Number 1 against the top 10 teams in this regular season means very little when considering the overall context of COVID protocols and injuries that happened. A lot of people forget, a huge factor to our success in the regular season was staying healthy, while other teams had significant COVID and injury issues (Lakers obviously is the biggest example). Unfortunately for the Jazz, their injury issues happened in the later stages in the season, for both Mitchell and Conley.

Every team can play small ball (including the jazz). Most teams don't and won't. Suns wouldn't bench ayton like the clippers did zubac

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[homeytennis]

The last two minutes of last night's game were unwatchable. Bricks, turnovers, badly missed shots that if you're an NBA player you have to make, missed free throws. I think the compressed schedule caught up to both teams.

 

[fishonjazz]

The last two minutes of last night's game were unwatchable. Bricks, turnovers, badly missed shots that if you're an NBA player you have to make, missed free throws. I think the compressed schedule caught up to both teams.

Probably right.
Clippers have to be really tired. They are injured and they played a 7 game series in round 1, then straight into a 6 game series in round 2 with no rest between, then into another series with no rest against a rested and superior team.
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