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Game Thread Nov 21, 2022 08:30PM MT: Jazz at Los Angeles Clippers

Added to Calendar: 11-21-22

MT Steve said:
The rule is, if they're in legal guarding position and receive significant enough contact to displace them from said legal guarding position, it's an offensive foul.
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He wasn't even guarding THT. If you watch the replay Coffey didn't have his arms up in a defensive posture. His arms were folded and leaned in to brace/influence contact. That's not defense, that's literally blocking someone's path to the basket.

And overturns are supposed to be conclusive - this definitely wasn't that.
 
It’s really hard for me to be upset with guys because they are flawed players to begin with but… KO single handedly killed us with his turnovers and terrible defense. Vando can’t finish around the rim and plays hard on defense but really isn’t that good of a defender. Sexton can score very well but in the second half he was doing too much dribbling and not moving the ball around.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I think it's pretty clear Sexton is going to miss Mike the most. Mike/Sexton duo lets Sexton play to his strengths and when stuff needs to be ran properly we have the safety blanket in Conley.

Now Sexton has to actually run stuff and it's painful to watch.
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Nah. Sexton needs these extra minutes to snap out of his funk and gain some confidence.
 
Lets not overreact. Think about this stretch of 3 games... vs Suns, at Blazers, at Clippers.... I'm very happy with 2-1. Also our season record with our schedule is awesome.

I think our 2nd team minutes were rough and our 3 point shooting was pretty bad. First one shouldn't happen too often as we have one of the most expensive benches in the league but the 2nd part is something that you cannot help with. Our best shooters Malik and Lauri were off from 3, and Clarkson got cold in the 2nd half. We maybe should have given KO some more shots seeing he seemed to have the hot hand.
 
One thing I didn't like is our guards were not feeding the bigs inside at all. I think Conley might be the only guy in the team that can do that consistently. THT had that one alley oop with Lauri, but I cannot remember another play where guard set up one of our bigs for easy bucket. KO, Vando and Lauri did set each other up though, and also had a few good kickouts.

Oh and I agree about the "naw for NAW" initiative.
 
NAW must be the best practice player ever.

Couple swing point that hurt… John Wall hitting a half court shot and the THT reversal is like a 6 point swing. Felt like guy wasn’t square and it was shoulder to shoulder whereas most charges are taken in the chest… I don’t understand how a guy slightly dragging his foot as he’s completely square equals a foul but a guy leaning and making shoulder contact with both guys going different directions ins a charge. I also think there needs to be a middle ground between block and charge that is just called basketball… like both guys there at roughly the same time and it’s a zero whistle play on.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
NAW must be the best practice player ever.

Couple swing point that hurt… John Wall hitting a half court shot and the THT reversal is like a 6 point swing. Felt like guy wasn’t square and it was shoulder to shoulder whereas most charges are taken in the chest… I don’t understand how a guy slightly dragging his foot as he’s completely square equals a foul but a guy leaning and making shoulder contact with both guys going different directions ins a charge. I also think there needs to be a middle ground between block and charge that is just called basketball… like both guys there at roughly the same time and it’s a zero whistle play on.
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I think most of the time that should be a non-call. "Drawing a charge" shouldn't be a thing, tbh. It isn't a defensive play, it is a warping of the rules. They are getting better at not calling those, but now it feels like a weapon the refs can wield to change the course of the game. Make a non-call where they need to get a point, and make a bad call where they need a turnover. I know that isn't really the case, but it sure feels that way at times.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I think most of the time that should be a non-call. "Drawing a charge" shouldn't be a thing, tbh. It isn't a defensive play, it is a warping of the rules. They are getting better at not calling those, but now it feels like a weapon the refs can wield to change the course of the game. Make a non-call where they need to get a point, and make a bad call where they need a turnover. I know that isn't really the case, but it sure feels that way at times.
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For years I have advocated getting rid of the charge. Its dangerous and not basketball. I play pickup like 2x a week for 20 years... no one takes charges... no one gets knocked to the ground by drivers... people just try to defend the shot. No one turns into a statue and goes limp.

There is way more contact on post ups when the guy drives his shoulder into a guy. Its just weird we incentivize guys (often small guys) jumping in front of players who are going full speed causing multiple guys to fall down around a bunch of other players legs.
 
I am definitely glad I didn't get tickets to this game. I went to the right Clippers game, that is for sure. This one sucked.
 
candrew said:
He wasn't even guarding THT. If you watch the replay Coffey didn't have his arms up in a defensive posture. His arms were folded and leaned in to brace/influence contact. That's not defense, that's literally blocking someone's path to the basket.

And overturns are supposed to be conclusive - this definitely wasn't that.
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Idk what to tell you man.

If you have access to the Salt Lake Tribune, Andy Larsen did a decent breakdown of it in his Triple Team last night.

As I said plenty of times though, it is a dumb rule. But, going by the rule, it's the correct call.
 
MT Steve said:
Idk what to tell you man.

If you have access to the Salt Lake Tribune, Andy Larsen did a decent breakdown of it in his Triple Team last night.

As I said plenty of times though, it is a dumb rule. But, going by the rule, it's the correct call.
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The guy was leaning to the right and had a super wide stance... there was leg on leg contact and shoulder on shoulder. Its a 50/50 call... I've seen charges overturned where guys lean. I think there is enough going on to call it inconclusive.

If they want to go letter of the law then I guess Kawhi should have been given a tech for stepping on to the court in the middle of the inbound pass after the ref had handed the Jazz the ball. 6 men on the court and the play had started.

Its the inconsistency that is maddening. On like the next play there is a pass and crash with no whistle.
 
In channeling my inner nerd, I looked the rule up and by just the language of that rule, the call is correct. But when it's combined with all the other rules, I think the decision is wrong. If the call is correct, a foul could not be called on the defense ever and stand. All the coach would have to do is cite the mumbo jumbo of that rule and they have the refs in a pickle. Nice job Adam Silver.
 
MT Steve said:
None of these things matter at all based on the way the (dumb) rule is written.
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Then I have a hard time seeing it enforced as it is written consistently. NBA is too litigious. I'm going on formal protest until tomorrow evening. Eff em.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Sexton can score very well but in the second half he was doing too much dribbling and not moving the ball around.
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Same with tht in this game. Both of them tried to be more of a PG in the second half but they think that means dribbling more and not moving the ball around. This team doesn't need that ball dominant PG who is looking for an assist or basket and doesn't move the ball.
 
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