Game Thread Nov 29, 2021 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Trail Blazers

[Handlogten's Heros]

Teams are actually back to closing out to him though. Last year they were literally ignoring him. Hopefully he's able to get some 3's up soon. He shot it really well in Summer League.

I watched his guy sit in the paint... I think we think they are closing out to him because he is driving off of the kick out and not really looking to shoot at all. Turned it over once and I think he setup Rudy with a nice pass on another. I think his shot is too slow and he knows it... so whether or not it is them closing out I think he is kind of a problem because his guy is hanging out in the paint.

I think his NBA offensive skill is really driving and either scoring (now that he is starting to look at the rim again) or kicking it out to start the blender. Using him off ball makes zero sense. I'm good with him on ball as I think it will start some ball movement but I'd like him to threaten the defense with a drive rather than just pass.

 

[KqWIN]

Haven't been a believer in Forrest, but to his credit he's been more aggressive on offense and his lineups are booming. That's the most important thing for this role...that the lineups aren't messed up. It's why I was a fan of Oni's performance last year and that extends to Forrest as of late.

I still don't love the idea of our offense being at the mercy of Trent Forrest's on ball game even if it's the best way to play with him. I much prefer these fill in players to be able to stay out of the way, but if it works it works.

 

[Jingled]

How many games can two way guys play in? Isn't it just around 50? We're going to have to convert Forrest's contract to a regular deal soon and either give him the 15th roster spot or cut Oni and give him his spot. I'd much prefer to cut Oni and leave the last roster spot open in case a buyout guy comes along that we want to sign.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Haven't been a believer in Forrest, but to his credit he's been more aggressive on offense and his lineups are booming. That's the most important thing for this role...that the lineups aren't messed up. It's why I was a fan of Oni's performance last year and that extends to Forrest as of late.

I still don't love the idea of our offense being at the mercy of Trent Forrest's on ball game even if it's the best way to play with him. I much prefer these fill in players to be able to stay out of the way, but if it works it works.

How many games can two way guys play in? Isn't it just around 50? We're going to have to convert Forrest's contract to a regular deal soon and either give him the 15th roster spot or cut Oni and give him his spot. I'd much prefer to cut Oni and leave the last roster spot open in case a buyout guy comes along that we want to sign.

My issue with Forrest/Oni is as follows:

- He's fine... are we going to rely on him in the playoffs.
- If we are developing a guy why not have it be Butler who just has so much more upside.
- If we are valuing a defensive stopper or "win-now" value... why not cut Oni and sign Dunn or Galloway. Both guys would likely out perform Forrest and we are much more likely to rely on one of these guys in the playoffs if we had to.

If Dunn is currently healthy it is malpractice that we have not signed him. Yes I am getting @infection fired up. Go ahead and look at what Gary Payton is doing with deflections and the Warriors defense. Dunn is the same disruptive defender and can do exactly what Forrest is doing on offense. I get that the GM gets some sort of bonus points for a guy that develops in house but a minimum deal is a minimum deal. Having a healthy Dunn makes it much more likely you'd feel good resting Mike.

If we are thrilled with Forrest and Dunn isn't healthy then go on ahead and continue down this path... but cut Oni and sign a Darius Miller or Langston Galloway... two guys that can actually shoot. They may be waiting to see if something better comes up and that is fine but it does take a little time to integrate vets too.

 

[KqWIN]

My issue with Forrest/Oni is as follows:

- He's fine... are we going to rely on him in the playoffs.
- If we are developing a guy why not have it be Butler who just has so much more upside.
- If we are valuing a defensive stopper or "win-now" value... why not cut Oni and sign Dunn or Galloway. Both guys would likely out perform Forrest and we are much more likely to rely on one of these guys in the playoffs if we had to.

If Dunn is currently healthy it is malpractice that we have not signed him. Yes I am getting @infection fired up. Go ahead and look at what Gary Payton is doing with deflections and the Warriors defense. Dunn is the same disruptive defender and can do exactly what Forrest is doing on offense. I get that the GM gets some sort of bonus points for a guy that develops in house but a minimum deal is a minimum deal. Having a healthy Dunn makes it much more likely you'd feel good resting Mike.

If we are thrilled with Forrest and Dunn isn't healthy then go on ahead and continue down this path... but cut Oni and sign a Darius Miller or Langston Galloway... two guys that can actually shoot. They may be waiting to see if something better comes up and that is fine but it does take a little time to integrate vets too.

I'm not against picking up a vet or even a different nobody, Dunn just isn't the vet I would go after. The reports on his health did not look good and whenever there's a vet that can't find a team, I think there's probably a reason why 30 teams said no to that guy. I know that became a huge thing with Shaq, but I do put that under consideration when there are "known" commodities.

Generally I think 11-14 should be used on lottery tickets and development pieces. Even though they are developing player, the chances of them helping a team versus a vet off the street doesn't seem that different. The risk of cutting Oni for Dunn, for example, is that Oni is actually better than Dunn. Maybe I'm completely wrong on this, but I can't really think of any vets that have actually been picked off the street who have helped a team. I'm talking about someone like Ersan, not a buy out guy. Maybe Melo with POR?

Either way, rarely is there a non-rotation player that can actually help you in the playoffs, otherwise they wouldn't be a non-rotation player. Like I said, I wouldn't necessarily mind using one of those spots on a vet but I don't think that's a real solution. We won't win or lose a championship on spots 11-14. If we're serious about addressing our issues, you need to do that in a more substantial way. The idea of throwing a guy in for a few minutes and he changes everything is cute, but not a sustainable way to win. Subbing in a worse player to shock the system or whatever just isn't a tactic I believe in.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm not against picking up a vet or even a different nobody, Dunn just isn't the vet I would go after. The reports on his health did not look good and whenever there's a vet that can't find a team, I think there's probably a reason why 30 teams said no to that guy. I know that became a huge thing with Shaq, but I do put that under consideration when there are "known" commodities.

Generally I think 11-14 should be used on lottery tickets and development pieces. Even though they are developing player, the chances of them helping a team versus a vet off the street doesn't seem that different. The risk of cutting Oni for Dunn, for example, is that Oni is actually better than Dunn. Maybe I'm completely wrong on this, but I can't really think of any vets that have actually been picked off the street who have helped a team. I'm talking about someone like Ersan, not a buy out guy. Maybe Melo with POR?

Either way, rarely is there a non-rotation player that can actually help you in the playoffs, otherwise they wouldn't be a non-rotation player. Like I said, I wouldn't necessarily mind using one of those spots on a vet but I don't think that's a real solution. We won't win or lose a championship on spots 11-14. If we're serious about addressing our issues, you need to do that in a more substantial way. The idea of throwing a guy in for a few minutes and he changes everything is cute, but not a sustainable way to win. Subbing in a worse player to shock the system or whatever just isn't a tactic I believe in.

Cousins gave the Clips a minor boost in the series with us... they figured out small ball was better but that was a minor addition. Denver got a lot of quality time from Rivers last year. Its the same logic folks use to say buy out guys don't matter. They have helped teams win in the past and may not have been the reason they won... but they helped.

I'm cool with 11-14 being for projects too... I just think a guy who hasn't shown any meaningful improvement in a 3 year span and is on an expiring deal is not really the best use of that spot. I think Hughes is better on both ends of the floor than Oni and I'd rather get a guy on a minimum with a non-guaranteed year next year in case they pop. Dok and Oni have such a minor chance of being something and if we had to rely on them I'm sure we'd go dumpster diving instead. Get the guy now, or at some point this season, just in case a need arrives.

 

[kabenac]

My issue with Forrest/Oni is as follows:

- He's fine... are we going to rely on him in the playoffs.
- If we are developing a guy why not have it be Butler who just has so much more upside.
- If we are valuing a defensive stopper or "win-now" value... why not cut Oni and sign Dunn or Galloway. Both guys would likely out perform Forrest and we are much more likely to rely on one of these guys in the playoffs if we had to.

If Dunn is currently healthy it is malpractice that we have not signed him. Yes I am getting @infection fired up. Go ahead and look at what Gary Payton is doing with deflections and the Warriors defense. Dunn is the same disruptive defender and can do exactly what Forrest is doing on offense. I get that the GM gets some sort of bonus points for a guy that develops in house but a minimum deal is a minimum deal. Having a healthy Dunn makes it much more likely you'd feel good resting Mike.

If we are thrilled with Forrest and Dunn isn't healthy then go on ahead and continue down this path... but cut Oni and sign a Darius Miller or Langston Galloway... two guys that can actually shoot. They may be waiting to see if something better comes up and that is fine but it does take a little time to integrate vets too.

I'm a huge Forrest homer. He's finally looking composed out there. He knows his role and what he's good at; he knows how to stay on the floor. His biggest knock is he can't shoot the three; if he improves his shot it'll be interesting as he definitely has good shot selection.

If Dunn can still defend (he's sill young so I'm assuming he can) I wouldn't be opposed to signing him though it'll be interesting to see who pops up on the waiver wire near the trade deadline.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

A guy like Galloway could also likely be had on a 1+1 deal and while you may only need him in spot duty this year you get the option of keeping him for next year when you may need cheap production because Ingles is gone or JC was traded. Or you give Oni's guaranteed spot to Forrest or Fitts and go sign another two way guy and see if you can find some gold.

 

[infection]

My issue with Forrest/Oni is as follows:

- He's fine... are we going to rely on him in the playoffs.
- If we are developing a guy why not have it be Butler who just has so much more upside.
- If we are valuing a defensive stopper or "win-now" value... why not cut Oni and sign Dunn or Galloway. Both guys would likely out perform Forrest and we are much more likely to rely on one of these guys in the playoffs if we had to.

If Dunn is currently healthy it is malpractice that we have not signed him. Yes I am getting @infection fired up. Go ahead and look at what Gary Payton is doing with deflections and the Warriors defense. Dunn is the same disruptive defender and can do exactly what Forrest is doing on offense. I get that the GM gets some sort of bonus points for a guy that develops in house but a minimum deal is a minimum deal. Having a healthy Dunn makes it much more likely you'd feel good resting Mike.

If we are thrilled with Forrest and Dunn isn't healthy then go on ahead and continue down this path... but cut Oni and sign a Darius Miller or Langston Galloway... two guys that can actually shoot. They may be waiting to see if something better comes up and that is fine but it does take a little time to integrate vets too.

This is essentially the post I was going to make last night and then again this morning, but haven't gotten around to it. Forrest is fine. I've liked him since pre-season last year. He's a solid guy to have on the deep bench. He's kinda like a Jarron Collins option. We overplayed Collins and he was a huge opportunity cost. That's not to say that this is at all at the same level, but similar principle. Quin's shown that he's carved out a specific role for a 10 mpg PG off the bench. He's not making tons of mistakes but he's not bringing anything specific of value. He's essentially a place-holder whose largest function is to help limit Conley's minutes. Those minutes will go to Conley in the playoffs. Forrest, on a 2-way, isn't even eligible for the playoffs, so his getting minutes now isn't serving any purpose other than less miles on Conley's odometer. He isn't a lock-down defender and he isn't a huge disrupter, but he's a capable defender. Unfortunately, that makes him a "really good defender," or something like that, when compared to the rest of our guys. But simply being a capable defender isn't doing anything for us in 10 mpg. This was the role I saw Butler getting this year (the Neto role). I thought it would be good because it would give us some flexibility and allow us to further limit Mike and Joe's minutes. My preference was for Dunn, but people really liked the idea of developing Butler. Dunn is a guy who can come in and definitely make his presence known in 10 minutes. He can get that burn during the season and also be an option for the playoffs. Dunn's strength would be significantly magnified in a 10 mpg role while his limitations would be almost entirely mitigated when he's in that role rather than in a 25-30 mpg role. It's an option that we need and currently don't have. And he can be brought in to be a perimeter defender, and not just the de facto PG because Mike isn't on the floor. It's mind-numbingly stupid that we haven't looked at this. You can argue health and whatnot, but we've given no indication at all that we recognize we need something like this. Would we rather roll the dice on a minimum guy who could be that guy, or do we keep the status quo of what we know won't be? It only require waiving Oni. It's like picking the kids up from school and forgetting your phone inside. Your wife asks you from inside if you want her to bring your phone (she's coming with you anyway) and you say, nah... I probably won't need it. The cost of getting the phone is nothing and the likelihood of saying 'damn, I should have brought my phone' is pretty high. Oh, I know, I know... "but your battery could be dead! Maybe you'll incur roaming charges! Cell phones cause cancer!!! Maybe you'll get pulled over for texting while driving!!!!"

 

[KqWIN]

Cousins gave the Clips a minor boost in the series with us... they figured out small ball was better but that was a minor addition. Denver got a lot of quality time from Rivers last year. Its the same logic folks use to say buy out guys don't matter. They have helped teams win in the past and may not have been the reason they won... but they helped.

I'm cool with 11-14 being for projects too... I just think a guy who hasn't shown any meaningful improvement in a 3 year span and is on an expiring deal is not really the best use of that spot. I think Hughes is better on both ends of the floor than Oni and I'd rather get a guy on a minimum with a non-guaranteed year next year in case they pop. Dok and Oni have such a minor chance of being something and if we had to rely on them I'm sure we'd go dumpster diving instead. Get the guy now, or at some point this season, just in case a need arrives.

I'm not sure Cousins really helped the Clips...but sure. Rivers was a buyout who was signed with the Knicks before the season. If you weren't able to get a job in the offseason, when the rosters are still being built, that's not a good sign.

Players 11-14 don't matter until they do, of course, but if you're placing a bet on what type of player can actually make a meaningful difference....The Kris Dunn, Aminu type vet (especially when they are athletes who have been injured for multiple years) who no one gave a chance is not who I would place my bet on. I think you have a better shot with an in house player, a g-league player, or a vet coming in from Europe. We talk about these old vets like they're the player they were, but the reality is we don't know the state of any of these guys. It's a crapshoot whether you played two years ago or have not gotten a chance. Oni has had 4 real minutes this season, Hughes has had zero real minutes total in his career. There's been no opportunity. The younger guys are a better future play, but there's really no guarantee at all that Dunn is a better player them at this very moment.

 

[infection]

I'm not sure Cousins really helped the Clips...but sure. Rivers was a buyout who was signed with the Knicks before the season. If you weren't able to get a job in the offseason, when the rosters are still being built, that's not a good sign.

Players 11-14 don't matter until they do, of course, but if you're placing a bet on what type of player can actually make a meaningful difference....The Kris Dunn, Aminu type vet (especially when they are athletes who have been injured for multiple years) who no one gave a chance is not who I would place my bet on. I think you have a better shot with an in house player, a g-league player, or a vet coming in from Europe. We talk about these old vets like they're the player they were, but the reality is we don't know the state of any of these guys. It's a crapshoot whether you played two years ago or have not gotten a chance. Oni has had 4 real minutes this season, Hughes has had zero real minutes total in his career. There's been no opportunity. The younger guys are a better future play, but there's really no guarantee at all that Dunn is a better player them at this very moment.

I believe the odds of Dunn being that player are much higher than the odds of Oni or Hughes being that player. If there’s this secret cabal that prognosticates Dunn’s health to the kind of accuracy where we can dismiss him, then I’d counter by saying we have even more evidence of both those guys not being the guys we’re looking for by viewing it with our own eyes rather than this appeal to Dunn’s health that we haven’t seen at all and have to rely on squinting and assuming others’ assumptions are accurate.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm not sure Cousins really helped the Clips...but sure. Rivers was a buyout who was signed with the Knicks before the season. If you weren't able to get a job in the offseason, when the rosters are still being built, that's not a good sign.

Players 11-14 don't matter until they do, of course, but if you're placing a bet on what type of player can actually make a meaningful difference....The Kris Dunn, Aminu type vet (especially when they are athletes who have been injured for multiple years) who no one gave a chance is not who I would place my bet on. I think you have a better shot with an in house player, a g-league player, or a vet coming in from Europe. We talk about these old vets like they're the player they were, but the reality is we don't know the state of any of these guys. It's a crapshoot whether you played two years ago or have not gotten a chance. Oni has had 4 real minutes this season, Hughes has had zero real minutes total in his career. There's been no opportunity. The younger guys are a better future play, but there's really no guarantee at all that Dunn is a better player them at this very moment.

Dwayne Dedmon is another example... also its a move I would have considered in the offseason so some of the limitations you are placing aren't super fair. Would I have had Gary Payton in for a look... bet your sweet *** I would... have mentioned him before. If there wasn't anyone I liked I would have found a different project.

At this point if I was the decision maker I'd likely waive Oni for some tax savings... if there isn't anyone I wanted now I'd wait on the some buyouts. I think there is a date in January when he is guaranteed for the year... I'd be willing to bet some dough he isn't on the roster at the end of the season. We've seen him enough in years past and in the pre-season/summer league. He isn't magically going to turn into a 40% shooter from 3 or become a good defender with the playing time we have available for him so I'd burn the spot on a vet you know can do one of those things or I'd find a different project.

 

[KqWIN]

I believe the odds of Dunn being that player are much higher than the odds of Oni or Hughes being that player. If there’s this secret cabal that prognosticates Dunn’s health to the kind of accuracy where we can dismiss him, then I’d counter by saying we have even more evidence of both those guys not being the guys we’re looking for by viewing it with our own eyes rather than this appeal to Dunn’s health that we haven’t seen at all and have to rely on squinting and assuming others’ assumptions are accurate.

We don't have access to that information, but all 30 teams in the NBA have better access and zero have decided to give him a chance. I'm not about to get into a huge fight about this again this year, but when I read the reporting of his injuries and combine that with the decision made by 30 NBA teams to not sign him....yeah I think something is up. I think that's more likely than Kris Dunn being in peak form ready to play and nobody wanted him anyways. Maybe that is the case, but until he gets a shot I'm not going to lose sleep about it.

There isn't much to view with our own eyes when it comes to Hughes and Oni. Hughes has no real NBA minutes. Oni did get minutes last year and to my eye he was actually just fine. We're basing both sides off of mostly nothing, so to each their own. For me, the Kris Dunn type vet is the type of bet that inspires the least amount of confidence.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is essentially the post I was going to make last night and then again this morning, but haven't gotten around to it. Forrest is fine. I've liked him since pre-season last year. He's a solid guy to have on the deep bench. He's kinda like a Jarron Collins option. We overplayed Collins and he was a huge opportunity cost. That's not to say that this is at all at the same level, but similar principle. Quin's shown that he's carved out a specific role for a 10 mpg PG off the bench. He's not making tons of mistakes but he's not bringing anything specific of value. He's essentially a place-holder whose largest function is to help limit Conley's minutes. Those minutes will go to Conley in the playoffs. Forrest, on a 2-way, isn't even eligible for the playoffs, so his getting minutes now isn't serving any purpose other than less miles on Conley's odometer. He isn't a lock-down defender and he isn't a huge disrupter, but he's a capable defender. Unfortunately, that makes him a "really good defender," or something like that, when compared to the rest of our guys. But simply being a capable defender isn't doing anything for us in 10 mpg. This was the role I saw Butler getting this year (the Neto role). I thought it would be good because it would give us some flexibility and allow us to further limit Mike and Joe's minutes. My preference was for Dunn, but people really liked the idea of developing Butler. Dunn is a guy who can come in and definitely make his presence known in 10 minutes. He can get that burn during the season and also be an option for the playoffs. Dunn's strength would be significantly magnified in a 10 mpg role while his limitations would be almost entirely mitigated when he's in that role rather than in a 25-30 mpg role. It's an option that we need and currently don't have. And he can be brought in to be a perimeter defender, and not just the de facto PG because Mike isn't on the floor. It's mind-numbingly stupid that we haven't looked at this. You can argue health and whatnot, but we've given no indication at all that we recognize we need something like this. Would we rather roll the dice on a minimum guy who could be that guy, or do we keep the status quo of what we know won't be? It only require waiving Oni. It's like picking the kids up from school and forgetting your phone inside. Your wife asks you from inside if you want her to bring your phone (she's coming with you anyway) and you say, nah... I probably won't need it. The cost of getting the phone is nothing and the likelihood of saying 'damn, I should have brought my phone' is pretty high. Oh, I know, I know... "but your battery could be dead! Maybe you'll incur roaming charges! Cell phones cause cancer!!! Maybe you'll get pulled over for texting while driving!!!!"

Butler has struggled so I get why he isn't on the court but he did well in the preseason and deserved some time to get comfortable before moving on to Forrest. But if maximizing that 3-10 minutes is the priority then why not waive Oni and sign Galloway. Galloway can bring the ball up, play solid defense, then sit in the corner... but the difference is he is a career 44% 3 point shooter from the corners. Will pull the defense away or he could hit a couple threes and swing a game.

I get why a coach decides to play a guy that won't screw up vs a guy that can give you something... but I'm not sure that's a winning strategy where we sit.

 

[KqWIN]

Dwayne Dedmon is another example... also its a move I would have considered in the offseason so some of the limitations you are placing aren't super fair. Would I have had Gary Payton in for a look... bet your sweet *** I would... have mentioned him before. If there wasn't anyone I liked I would have found a different project.

At this point if I was the decision maker I'd likely waive Oni for some tax savings... if there isn't anyone I wanted now I'd wait on the some buyouts. I think there is a date in January when he is guaranteed for the year... I'd be willing to bet some dough he isn't on the roster at the end of the season. We've seen him enough in years past and in the pre-season/summer league. He isn't magically going to turn into a 40% shooter from 3 or become a good defender with the playing time we have available for him so I'd burn the spot on a vet you know can do one of those things or I'd find a different project.

I would definitely be open to trying to find the next Gary Payton. Random G-Leaguer is a better bet than Dunn IMO.

If Oni is not your guy, understandable. I think that if he got a little bit better on both ends he's a rotation player for every team in the league. He's not good, but he's so close to passable in the two most highly value skills at the most highly valued role player position. If you don't believe in his development, sure find another project. Oni has shown me enough to invest him another year, but it's not going to upset me if he gets cut for another project.

Let's be real here. Oni is being cut and Forrest is taking his real spot. I would be very shocked if that doesn't happen. I don't think Forrest is just a guy to maximize the 3-5 minutes of extra rest we give Conley. He's a guy we're investing in for the future.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I would definitely be open to trying to find the next Gary Payton. Random G-Leaguer is a better bet than Dunn IMO.

If Oni is not your guy, understandable. I think that if he got a little bit better on both ends he's a rotation player for every team in the league. He's not good, but he's so close to passable in the two most highly value skills at the most highly valued role player position. If you don't believe in his development, sure find another project. Oni has shown me enough to invest him another year, but it's not going to upset me if he gets cut for another project.

Let's be real here. Oni is being cut and Forrest is taking his real spot. I would be very shocked if that doesn't happen. I don't think Forrest is just a guy to maximize the 3-5 minutes of extra rest we give Conley. He's a guy we're investing in for the future.

Gary Payton can't be good though... there were multiple times when all 30 teams decided he wasn't an NBA player. I kid... I kid.

I think the league has never been deeper and that there are guys out there that can help or who are better bets than Oni. Forrest to me is completely replaceable and based on his shot form and results I just don't think he ever becomes more than that. Galloway not having a job seems wild to me. He was cut in favor of Payton. Avery Bradley was supposedly fighting for a job with the Lakers and now he's starting. I just think its entirely possible that guys slip through the cracks. Dunn might be hurt... which is why I have prefaced every post about him with "if Dunn is currently healthy". Guys can get their health back and have a second wind. His second wind would provide a very valuable role for us... if he has it in him... that's a fine bet... release Oni and give him a 10 day and find out (if they don't already know).

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not sure Cousins really helped the Clips...but sure. Rivers was a buyout who was signed with the Knicks before the season. If you weren't able to get a job in the offseason, when the rosters are still being built, that's not a good sign.

Players 11-14 don't matter until they do, of course, but if you're placing a bet on what type of player can actually make a meaningful difference....The Kris Dunn, Aminu type vet (especially when they are athletes who have been injured for multiple years) who no one gave a chance is not who I would place my bet on. I think you have a better shot with an in house player, a g-league player, or a vet coming in from Europe. We talk about these old vets like they're the player they were, but the reality is we don't know the state of any of these guys. It's a crapshoot whether you played two years ago or have not gotten a chance. Oni has had 4 real minutes this season, Hughes has had zero real minutes total in his career. There's been no opportunity. The younger guys are a better future play, but there's really no guarantee at all that Dunn is a better player them at this very moment.

I loved when cousins came into the game against the jazz. Made things so much easier for us.

 

[fishonjazz]

We definitely should be playing Butler over Forest.

 

[KqWIN]

Gary Payton can't be good though... there were multiple times when all 30 teams decided he wasn't an NBA player. I kid... I kid.

I think the league has never been deeper and that there are guys out there that can help or who are better bets than Oni. Forrest to me is completely replaceable and based on his shot form and results I just don't think he ever becomes more than that. Galloway not having a job seems wild to me. He was cut in favor of Payton. Avery Bradley was supposedly fighting for a job with the Lakers and now he's starting. I just think its entirely possible that guys slip through the cracks. Dunn might be hurt... which is why I have prefaced every post about him with "if Dunn is currently healthy". Guys can get their health back and have a second wind. His second wind would provide a very valuable role for us... if he has it in him... that's a fine bet... release Oni and give him a 10 day and find out (if they don't already know).

Yeah if he's healthy I'd do it right now as well, a 10 day at the very least....but I also think that it would be a no brainer for a lot of teams so I'm under the assumption that his health is not in a good place. He had a major injury, couldn't rehab in covid, was on a bed rest, had multiple related injuries to the first, and had significant injuries previously in his career. I could be wrong and I hope I am for his sake, but I'm working under the assumption that he's not right. He's occupying the same space as Andre Roberson. Would be an amazing get if he was healthy, he's probably not healthy.

I understand I'm high on Oni. I just think at minimum he can slide into the rotation and keep things going, which he did last year, and he also has upside because if you can get that type of athlete who can shoot a little you have a gem. That's most highly valued role player type in the league. Even if he just improved on one end or the other I think he could be a real piece. Whether that's being a 38% shooter with hit and miss defense or a 35% shooter with more solid defense. Neither development is that crazy IMO.

I really value the two way potential, which is the biggest reason I'm not super high on Forrest. He does a lot of nice things, but I can't see him being passable on offense. I have an easier time seeing Oni or Hughes become that player.