Obamacare

[LogGrad98]

Precisely.

All other industrialized nations provide universal coverage. All of them require individual mandates and strict price controls to keep costs down. After all the research I've done, I'm quite convinced that if we want universal coverage but keep insurance companies then we need to make them nonprofit entities and enact strict price controls.

People like LG act like the individual mandate is some socialist idea or outrage of freedom. The truth is, it's the only way to create pools large enough to pay for those who need health care the most.

Wow you really need to learn to read for comprehension. When have I ever talked against socialized medicine? Please show me the quote. I'm all for comprehensive medical care. But throwing out an arbitrary penalty to "spread the pool" does NOTHING to get us there without other changes to the system. This is where the Republicans refusing to pay nice ****ed up a chance to really make a step forward, and Obama and the dems ****ed up by forcing a ****ty system into place without bipartisan support and input. Both sides share blame in the fiasco. Your continual efforts to pigeonhole everyone into your preconceived sides of the political spectrum are laughable. There is a middle ground to be had. And this will remain ****ed and ****ty until we get some lawmakers who give a **** about what's best for the people not just their insanely narrow view of the political landscape.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Wow you really need to learn to read for comprehension. When have I ever talked against socialized medicine? Please show me the quote. I'm all for comprehensive medical care. But throwing out an arbitrary penalty to "spread the pool" does NOTHING to get us there without other changes to the system. This is where the Republicans refusing to pay nice ****ed up a chance to really make a step forward, and Obama and the dems ****ed up by forcing a ****ty system into place without bipartisan support and input. Both sides share blame in the fiasco. Your continual efforts to pigeonhole everyone into your preconceived sides of the political spectrum are laughable. There is a middle ground to be had. And this will remain ****ed and ****ty until we get some lawmakers who give a **** about what's best for the people not just their insanely narrow view of the political landscape.

yes the dems ****ed up by forcing obamacare down the americans throat
do you remmebr them saying you gotta vote for it to pass to get to read it!?!what kinda ****ed up world is that. you gotta vote yes to know on what kinda law you are voting on! really! that's the left for YA

 

[Ron Mexico]

yes the dems ****ed up by forcing obamacare down the americans throat
do you remmebr them saying you gotta vote for it to pass to get to read it!?!what kinda ****ed up world is that. you gotta vote yes to know on what kinda law you are voting on! really! that's the left for YA

Ive have not had medical insurance during Obamacare's existence and have not paid a penalty for that, nor will I. There are ways to not pay it within its system.

Things that your pretend non american account that sticks to reading breitbart, listening to fox news and sometimes watching CNN so you can get upset and hate on it might not know about.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Ive have not had medical insurance during Obamacare's existence and have not paid a penalty for that, nor will I. There are ways to not pay it within its system.

Things that your pretend non american account that sticks to reading breitbart, listening to fox news and sometimes watching CNN so you can get upset and hate on it might not know about.

tell that to other people paying this fine in this trhead

 

[Siro]

The Republicans will fail to replace Obamacare with anything the public finds acceptable. The problem is, this "repeal and replace" idea wasn't part of the Republican platform before Trump and his populism. The Republicans were in business of simply repealing Obamacare. It was on the premise that it was a failed experiment of the federal government managing healthcare coverage. Now that Trump has come along with his own ideas about "replacing Obama care with something really terrific!", the Rs are scrambling to figure out how to proceed. And I don't see how they can fulfill the promises of expanded coverage and lower premiums, without expanding the role of the federal government.

 

[babe]

The Republicans will fail to replace Obamacare with anything the public finds acceptable. The problem is, this "repeal and replace" idea wasn't part of the Republican platform before Trump and his populism. The Republicans were in business of simply repealing Obamacare. It was on the premise that it was a failed experiment of the federal government managing healthcare coverage. Now that Trump has come along with his own ideas about "replacing Obama care with something really terrific!", the Rs are scrambling to figure out how to proceed. And I don't see how they can fulfill the promises of expanded coverage and lower premiums, without expanding the role of the federal government.

I think you fail to understand how Health Savings Accounts do a lot better than tax to fund inefficient bureaucracies and huge copays that essentially mean no help for those who need it until they're on death's door. A plan which encourages economical decisions and starts helping above the HSI accounts is going to work.

You also fail to see that the ACA was designed to fail with the notion in mind that we'd then go to single-payer, government making all the decisions, which will never be economically effective at maximizing efficiency in the marketplace.

When 70% of Americans are dissatisfied with ACA, and the high deductibles are a huge part of that reasoning, Trump's health savings accounts will be a smash hit.

 

[LogGrad98]

Wow you really need to learn to read for comprehension. When have I ever talked against socialized medicine? Please show me the quote. I'm all for comprehensive medical care. But throwing out an arbitrary penalty to "spread the pool" does NOTHING to get us there without other changes to the system. This is where the Republicans refusing to pay nice ****ed up a chance to really make a step forward, and Obama and the dems ****ed up by forcing a ****ty system into place without bipartisan support and input. Both sides share blame in the fiasco. Your continual efforts to pigeonhole everyone into your preconceived sides of the political spectrum are laughable. There is a middle ground to be had. And this will remain ****ed and ****ty until we get some lawmakers who give a **** about what's best for the people not just their insanely narrow view of the political landscape.

FWIW I listed Obamacare as probably Obama's greatest accomplishment. While I think the system in place now is an abject failure, it is a step in the direction we MUST go as a country, and Obama staunchly defended and pushed to get it enacted, so he deserves credit mostly for opening the door. It is a bad door and needs to be shut, but it does get us started toward better and better doors, hopefully one that can lead to true universal healthcare with a single payer system that will truly benefit all, and not just play Robin Hood, as is all en vogue.

 

[LogGrad98]

The Republicans will fail to replace Obamacare with anything the public finds acceptable. The problem is, this "repeal and replace" idea wasn't part of the Republican platform before Trump and his populism. The Republicans were in business of simply repealing Obamacare. It was on the premise that it was a failed experiment of the federal government managing healthcare coverage. Now that Trump has come along with his own ideas about "replacing Obama care with something really terrific!", the Rs are scrambling to figure out how to proceed. And I don't see how they can fulfill the promises of expanded coverage and lower premiums, without expanding the role of the federal government.

I agree with you. Unfortunately the way our political machine works we are probably 10 or more iterations away from something that actually functions in healthcare reform. But I am glad the discussion moved from "repeal" to at least include "replace", since that is what needs to happen. I am still marginally hopeful that the powers that be somehow spawn some lawmakers from that gawd-awfully shallow gene pool we call the political arena that can actually step in and develop something that does what we need it to do.

 

[Siro]

I think you fail to understand how Health Savings Accounts do a lot better than tax to fund inefficient bureaucracies and huge copays that essentially mean no help for those who need it until they're on death's door. A plan which encourages economical decisions and starts helping above the HSI accounts is going to work.

You also fail to see that the ACA was designed to fail with the notion in mind that we'd then go to single-payer, government making all the decisions, which will never be economically effective at maximizing efficiency in the marketplace.

When 70% of Americans are dissatisfied with ACA, and the high deductibles are a huge part of that reasoning, Trump's health savings accounts will be a smash hit.

Please explain to me how HSAs will fulfill Trump's promises of more people getting insurance at lower rates. Even those who support it, do so because they think it gives people more of a say over their healthcare decisions, and not because it'll make coverage more affordable. Unfortunately, HSAs only help those who have the money to utilize it, and those aren't the people who have a problem with the ACA. It doesn't solve the problem for those who are barely making a living wage, and are suffering under ACA's insurance burden.

I understand that the ACA was a stepping stone to something more comprehensive. But for that to have happened, the Democrats would have had to win. Now it looks like we're going in a different direction. Despite Trump's bravado, there is no realistic way to replace Obamacare with a system that gives more people better coverage, while reducing the federal government's role.

I'll bump this when Trump's plan is very much NOT a smashing success.

 

[LogGrad98]

Sure there is a realistic way to replace obamacare. But it wound require politicians from both sides to work together and all of us to bite the bullet in a different tax structure, as well as a revamp of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries to get costs in line, as well as a move toward better regulation of the medical industry as a whole.

So yeah, it's not realistic. Touche.

However I hope we start moving somehow in that direction. No reason they can't come up with a plan for replacement even if it will take years, we gotta start somewhere.