Game Thread Oct 02, 2022 04:00PM MT: Jazz at Raptors (Preseason)

[NUMBERICA]

THT.

Dude is straight garbage.

But to consider that what we got for an elite efficiency/volume scorer (Bogey) and an elite 3&D PG (Beverly) is ****ing THT, Olynyk, and ZERO draft assets... it's hard to come to terms with.

This is especially troubling since the likely at least $14 million more on the books next year (most likely coming from THT if he doesn't get his **** together [he won't]) seems to be the difference in maybe taking on a longer negative contract for draft assets or not.

But hey, at least the Jazz have a dude they can throw out there that will guarantee that any lineup is a failure. Gimme some of that

Sexton
THT
Clarkson
not Markannen
probably Kessler

crunch-time lineup.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Gimme some of that

Sexton
THT
Clarkson
not Markannen
probably Kessler

crunch-time lineup.

I’m cool with the Jazz scrapping for wins for 42 minutes a game if they close games with this **** show.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Which trade is worse that one or the Olynyk one?

THT by quite a bit. KO you can see the role he will have… they clearly took their time. If you want to cut him next year it costs 3M… if he’s good you can keep him. It shaved some salary which helps a bit this year.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

THT.

Dude is straight garbage.

But to consider that what we got for an elite efficiency/volume scorer (Bogey) and an elite 3&D PG (Beverly) is ****ing THT, Olynyk, and ZERO draft assets... it's hard to come to terms with.

This is especially troubling since the likely at least $14 million more on the books next year (most likely coming from THT if he doesn't get his **** together [he won't]) seems to be the difference in maybe taking on a longer negative contract for draft assets or not.

It would have been better for us to just work a buyout with Bev… that’s how bad the THT deal was.

 

[HeatCheck]

I’m cool with the Jazz scrapping for wins for 42 minutes a game if they close games with this **** show.

After having just given Sexton $70 mil I would hope they would at least try to put him in a situation to succeed which could raise trade value at the very least. My eyes were bleeding watching some of those 2nd unit Gay/Clarkson lineups last night. They aren't going to develop Sexton or anyone else with those 2 on the floor.

 

[homeytennis]

Can we trade our entire roster straight up for the Aussie team that beat the Suns? Make it happen DA and JZ.

 

[Rubashov]

I’ve just looked and it’s like $8.50 a month for all teams here in Thailand or about $50 annually.. I guess that’s pretty good value in comparison?

Problem is; yes its cheaper than heroin, after watching this team for a year you will NEED heroin.

 

[Udidthizz]

Can we trade our entire roster straight up for the Aussie team that beat the Suns? Make it happen DA and JZ.

The NBL seems to have a $1.1 million salary cap, so salary matching may become an issue...

 

[homeytennis]

The NBL seems to have a $1.1 million salary cap, so salary matching may become an issue...

We won't have to worry about the stinking luxury tax though.

 

[Jingled]

A tale of two halves. Preseason, all new players in camp for a week so it doesn’t mean a hill of beans really. My concerns have more to do with the rotations, the personnel and the general lack of discipline and cohesion in the second half.

Concerning rotations, this depth chart seems to have more to do with the status quo than an actual fresh assessment. Will we have to watch two grand standers in Clarkson and Gay play big back-up minutes all year, or is Hardy only giving them enough rope so they can hang themselves? No trade will ever materialize for a 36 year old that doesn’t want to share the rock folks.

Personnel: disappointed in both Olynyk and Fontechio. No doubt we would have been ten times better with Bogey. Did Ainge really think that 27 year old Fontechio was the European sleeper that could provide everything Bogey did at a fraction of the cost? And then that 31 year old Kelly O would do more to help this team than Bogey could have? Wow!

Cohesion, discipline: nonexistent particularly in the second half but particularly evident with the iso play of Gay and Clarkson. Aren’t these guys supposed to be playing the role of mentors after all? And why does Hardy not offer some swift remediation for this insolence. (Don’t tell me you didn’t see Gay dribble down and just jack a three like he’s Curry or play Dr J on a dunk attempt in traffic or Clarkson’s Meadow Lark Lemon spot light impersonations.)

Uh...Ainge doesn't want to be good this season, he wants to lose as many games as possible so that we can get the best draft pick possible. Obviously, he would've just kept Bogey if the goal was to be good this season.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

things I'm mildly concerned about:

- Gay playing too much to increase his value has a cost. Just swallow the bitter pill if nothing happens like 10 or so games into the season.
- NAW is clearly ahead of Ochai on the depth chart or they are giving him run to showcase him. In spite of great praise for NAW he still looked like the same player I have not really been a fan of. It would be nice if Ochai was so good that he would clearly be above NAW on the depth chart given how much we like him apparently.
- Kessler didn't bother anyone at the rim. I'm fine with it for now... some of that is aggression/nerves but it also could be he isn't effective against NBA level athletes and length. Its more just something to watch at this point than a concern.
- No idea what Hardy's plan is with rotations. Bring Sexton and JC off the bench is not something I'd recommend. Especially with Gay... whoever brings the ball up gets to shoot in that lineup I guess.
- I don't love KO in the starting lineup as I want Lauri at the 4. Lauri was great in this game so maybe it works.
- Beasley should be much better but looked kinda lost... he's a much better shooter than he showed so maybe some nerves and feeling everyone out.
- I can't make any more excuses for JB. In summer league I was like his teammates suck... in the G league he was okay but had the same thing. In short stints when he'd suck I would say its just garbage time. Last night didn't look like he was mentally in it at all... its now 100% on him to make this work. If you only get garbage time don't look like **** okay.

Things I liked:

- Lauri was awesome.
- KO knows how to play basketball
- Mike looked fairly spry I thought.
- Sexton plays with force and it should be fun
- Vando does ****... just think hes the type of player that really doesn't do much for a tank team.
- Kessler seemed okayish on offense... blew a couple layups/short range shots but was okay. Seems to move decently.

 

[Jingled]

things I'm mildly concerned about:

- Gay playing too much to increase his value has a cost. Just swallow the bitter pill if nothing happens like 10 or so games into the season.
- NAW is clearly ahead of Ochai on the depth chart or they are giving him run to showcase him. In spite of great praise for NAW he still looked like the same player I have not really been a fan of. It would be nice if Ochai was so good that he would clearly be above NAW on the depth chart given how much we like him apparently.
- Kessler didn't bother anyone at the rim. I'm fine with it for now... some of that is aggression/nerves but it also could be he isn't effective against NBA level athletes and length. Its more just something to watch at this point than a concern.
- No idea what Hardy's plan is with rotations. Bring Sexton and JC off the bench is not something I'd recommend. Especially with Gay... whoever brings the ball up gets to shoot in that lineup I guess.
- I don't love KO in the starting lineup as I want Lauri at the 4. Lauri was great in this game so maybe it works.
- Beasley should be much better but looked kinda lost... he's a much better shooter than he showed so maybe some nerves and feeling everyone out.
- I can't make any more excuses for JB. In summer league I was like his teammates suck... in the G league he was okay but had the same thing. In short stints when he'd suck I would say its just garbage time. Last night didn't look like he was mentally in it at all... its now 100% on him to make this work. If you only get garbage time don't look like **** okay.

Things I liked:

- Lauri was awesome.
- KO knows how to play basketball
- Mike looked fairly spry I thought.
- Sexton plays with force and it should be fun
- Vando does ****... just think hes the type of player that really doesn't do much for a tank team.
- Kessler seemed okayish on offense... blew a couple layups/short range shots but was okay. Seems to move decently.

I just don't think playing Gay to increase his value is going to do any good at all...he looks completely washed. I hope the Jazz can just come to terms with that before the season starts. I am not going to be a happy camper if I have to watch Gay and NAW play while Fontecchio and Ochai ride the pine most of the season.

 

[HeatCheck]

If Sexton was just another one of these guys like NAW or THT that failed in other places I'd be cool if they just want to throw him out there with JC/Gay and have one of them chuck every time down the court while losing as many games as possible. The fact he's a former lottery pick who they just gave a $70 mil contract tells me they better at least try to develop his playmaking and throwing him out there with JC ain't it.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

- Kessler didn't bother anyone at the rim. I'm fine with it for now... some of that is aggression/nerves but it also could be he isn't effective against NBA level athletes and length. Its more just something to watch at this point than a concern.

Careful, I said this yesterday and I was called a contrarian.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I just don't think playing Gay to increase his value is going to do any good at all...he just looks completely washed. I hope the Jazz can just come to terms with that before the season starts. I am not going to be a happy camper if I have to watch Gay and NAW play while Fontecchio and Ochai ride the pine most of the season.

Did Gay look that washed? I know he missed the dunk, but even attempting the dunk he attempted is pretty impressive at his age.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

things I'm mildly concerned about:

- Gay playing too much to increase his value has a cost. Just swallow the bitter pill if nothing happens like 10 or so games into the season.
- NAW is clearly ahead of Ochai on the depth chart or they are giving him run to showcase him. In spite of great praise for NAW he still looked like the same player I have not really been a fan of. It would be nice if Ochai was so good that he would clearly be above NAW on the depth chart given how much we like him apparently.
- Kessler didn't bother anyone at the rim. I'm fine with it for now... some of that is aggression/nerves but it also could be he isn't effective against NBA level athletes and length. Its more just something to watch at this point than a concern.
- No idea what Hardy's plan is with rotations. Bring Sexton and JC off the bench is not something I'd recommend. Especially with Gay... whoever brings the ball up gets to shoot in that lineup I guess.
- I don't love KO in the starting lineup as I want Lauri at the 4. Lauri was great in this game so maybe it works.
- Beasley should be much better but looked kinda lost... he's a much better shooter than he showed so maybe some nerves and feeling everyone out.
- I can't make any more excuses for JB. In summer league I was like his teammates suck... in the G league he was okay but had the same thing. In short stints when he'd suck I would say its just garbage time. Last night didn't look like he was mentally in it at all... its now 100% on him to make this work. If you only get garbage time don't look like **** okay.

Things I liked:

- Lauri was awesome.
- KO knows how to play basketball
- Mike looked fairly spry I thought.
- Sexton plays with force and it should be fun
- Vando does ****... just think hes the type of player that really doesn't do much for a tank team.
- Kessler seemed okayish on offense... blew a couple layups/short range shots but was okay. Seems to move decently.

Also, I actually thought KO looked really good. He looked like 2 steps ahead of everyone offensively not named Mike Conley on offense.

And yeah, the Jazz got a big "ball stopper" problem w/ their offense. Gay/Clarkson/Sexton are players who are most comfortable stopping the offense and getting into their bag, not moving the ball. Hopefully once Hardy installs w/e it is he wants to install, the team wont have to go to those safety blankets as much. If Sexton doesnt figure out how to be a PG this team is absolutely ****ed.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Careful, I said this yesterday and I was called a contrarian.

Well those folks weren't watching. He was around some rim attempts and didn't change them at all. Like didn't make them change the angle or anything. I don't think he went to go get them at all so it might be partly aggressiveness and being the first game.

Like remember when Udoka came in preseason and yeah he was jumping at everything... but guys went up around him and they felt him one way or another.

It is very much just something to watch though... not concerned at all.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Well those folks weren't watching. He was around some rim attempts and didn't change them at all. Like didn't make them change the angle or anything. I don't think he went to go get them at all so it might be partly aggressiveness and being the first game.

Like remember when Udoka came in preseason and yeah he was jumping at everything... but guys went up around him and they felt him one way or another.

It is very much just something to watch though... not concerned at all.

Yeah some posters just want a **** fest the moment a rookie makes a layup.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also, I actually thought KO looked really good. He looked like 2 steps ahead of everyone offensively not named Mike Conley on offense.

And yeah, the Jazz got a big "ball stopper" problem w/ their offense. Gay/Clarkson/Sexton are players who are most comfortable stopping the offense and getting into their bag, not moving the ball. Hopefully once Hardy installs w/e it is he wants to install, the team wont have to go to those safety blankets as much. If Sexton doesnt figure out how to be a PG this team is absolutely ****ed.

That's what I was getting at with KO know how to play. Its tough when the guy misses all his shots to say he looked really good... but he gets space with little ball fakes and stuff that is kinda tricky. Also noted he spots up like 3 feet behind the line to pull the defense out a bit more and also gives him the chance to pump fake and then step into a three... instead of a long two.

He has control and just knows how to play. There is value to having those guys on the floor with the young ones. He just missed a bunch of makeable shots. But looked like one of the only guys with a plan. Its the thing that drives me nuts about a guy like NAW. He just is kinda doing stuff with no real end or intention (it seems).

 

[HeatCheck]

Did Gay look that washed? I know he missed the dunk, but even attempting the dunk he attempted is pretty impressive at his age.

Sure compared to other 36 yo's at the men's league he still looks legit.

He was pretty awful compared to the spry young 6'-8" guys the Raps were trotting out yesterday.