Of past and present, and a franchise's identity

[Sub-Odeon]

Hi JF2814! (waves)

For everyone defending Deron, it's essentially cemented in the public perception now that Deron Williams forced Sloan out. Whether or not this is fact or not is immaterial. The word on the street is that Deron was arguing and bickering with Sloan, punctuated by the events during and after the Chicago loss. Whether Jerry left of his own accord or as a co-decision with KOC to try and salvage the season is also immaterial. The majority of Utah Jazz fans now see this as a player revolt with Deron at its head.

Only a superbly recovered season and deep playoffs run will salvage the image of Deron Williams, and several other players.

Probably, Deron gets traded so that the Jazz don't get LeBronned like Cleveland. Williams doesn't like it here anymore and the fans don't like Williams after the way Sloan exited. If the Jazz are smart they will package D-Will to a contender for draft picks and some lunchbucket guys, muddle through the season, and then spend the summer trying to find a good head coach and focusing on a rebuild.

If Deron is not traded, speculation will run wild about his loyalties and his ability to be a franchise leader. Especially if he chokes down the stretch run and/or during the playoffs. Who runs the Jazz now? Corbin seems like a nice guy, but is he an enforcer like Sloan? My instincts tell me he is a figurehead coach until the summer comes, then it's game on as KOC and Co. try to locate a younger, dynamic coach to package with a fresh squad of guys.

Any way you slice it, Sloan's dreadful departure is going to be stamped all over Williams, and vice versa. Williams is more or less cemented as the Sloan-killer. Doesn't matter if that's how it actually happened, that's public perception. And perception is 90% of everything in so many situations.

 

[JAZZFAN_2814]

Hey Sub.

Real long time. The halcyon days of the ESPN boards.

Stock. Malone. Sloan. Larry.

Even as someone who questioned the late LHM -- who was and still is somewhat upset over certain decisions -- I can't help but think that things would have been different with him in charge. That there was an underlying loyalty to Sloan and what he meant, that this would be respected throughout the organization.

Anyway, I take it you're back in SLC? Ironic. From Seattle to Salt Lake, how quickly fortunes change in the NBA.

 

[jimmyjazz]

After watching Sloan's gut-wrenching farewell, itself precipitated by another listless (or is that pissy, premeditated and putrid?) performance from Deron Williams, it occurred to me: what does this franchise stand for?

Loyalty. Commitment. Stability. Honesty. Any sense of right and wrong.

Hate it as much as the next guy the manner of Sloan's leaving, almost as bad as Karl going to the Lakers, but the man will have his proper farewell yet.

In recent years, this franchise has stood for middle-of-the-roadness, predictability, cosy stagnation. Are those things right or wrong? It comes to your sports team, you yearn for achievement, excitement and a sense of moving forward.

Not Sloan's fault but he is what he is. The incarnation of rock-solid stability, with all its pros and cons. Personally I think management didn't do enough to give Sloan a team he deserves to lead to greater things. And no, it's not because Deron is evil and neither could Sloan coach forever.

Transition is always rough but here's to hoping that the changes will eventually be for the better.

 

[write4u]

I think JF 2814 is overestimating the power Deron possesses. He is no diabolical villain, but I would agree that he was the catalyst, despite what Jerry says. Jerry just had enough and wasn't going to take Deron's b.s. -- you know, Jerry, he's stubborn. That's why I wonder about the alleged suspension. Maybe he did threaten Deron with that, and KOC tried to dissuade him, and when that happened Jerry said, enough is enough.

 

[northeast]

Great points in the topic post by jazzfanz_2814.

We can only speculate as to exactly what goes on behind closed doors and inside people's heads.

I don't know that Deron consciously pushed Sloan out to the extent you suggest, actually I doubt it. However, I do think that Deron's attitude could have been better, and this appears to be one of many factors in Sloan's feeling it was time to go, and possibly the biggest single factor although not the only one.

I say this admitting that I was one of the posters here calling for Sloan to make some tactical changes, such as playing Fes more, one of the things that has been cited as a prime example of Deron's horrible transgressions. However, I never meant these suggestions as an attack on Sloan's competence, just as suggestions he might want to consider these things, and I left open the possibility that I was entirely wrong, they were just ideas that might be considered.

I wonder if the players do read this board. Probably not a lot directly, but the comments here probably do have an influence even if indirectly. The tiny number of people posting here probably do have an impact on the zeitgeist out of proportion to their numbers. Even if the players and coaches and owners pay little attention to this board, there is little doubt the board is read by many people who care about the Jazz or the NBA, and the ideas expressed here are heard.

Words can have an impact, and I would think it is difficult for the team to be at their best when there most vocal fans are attacking them day after day with the most hateful , stupid and vicious attacks on their character and performance of the players, coaches, and management.

So, I place some of the blame on Jazzfanz.com. I won't take the time to name names. There are a lot of very intelligent thoughts expressed here, but there is also a lot of dumb negativity that I see as counterproductive.

I have kept my mouth shut as Deron has been treated as some sort of God on this board. I don't want to drag him down, but I think some of the worship was overdone.

Likewise , while Sloan has also been worshipped by many, I have also been disappointed by some of the rabid attacks on Sloan. I don't think he is perfect either, but I think he has done a great job for the franchise, and is a quality persion, as has been expressed more eloquently by others.

I think people in general maybe give too much money and time following sports, and i am guilty of this myself. There are more important problems and issues in the world that don't receive comparable resources. However, following this franchise has been a big part of my life, and Jerry Sloan has been a big part of this. I have great respect for the guy, and the NBA won't be the same without him.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

You don't know what passive aggressive means if you think that is an example.

truth

 

[Sub-Odeon]

Hey Sub.

Real long time. The halcyon days of the ESPN boards.

Stock. Malone. Sloan. Larry.

Even as someone who questioned the late LHM -- who was and still is somewhat upset over certain decisions -- I can't help but think that things would have been different with him in charge. That there was an underlying loyalty to Sloan and what he meant, that this would be respected throughout the organization.

Anyway, I take it you're back in SLC? Ironic. From Seattle to Salt Lake, how quickly fortunes change in the NBA.

Yep, I am back in Utah. Bought a house up by Hill AFB, and work in Salt Lake. I'm a Warrant Officer in the Army Reserve now, and have had some success selling some fiction too. Daughter is doing great, wife is doing well, life is actually remarkably good. Which is why Jerry leaving like this has sort of hurt the whole family. Even my wife, who cares nothing about the NBA. She shed a tear for Jerry because she has always loved and respected who he was and what he stood for. I think the Sloan haters can't ever grasp this. Utahns loved Jerry not just because he was good at what he did, but because of the kind of man he was and the kind of men he had his best years working with: Bailey, Eaton, Stockton, Hornacek, and Malone. And owner Larry Miller. These men are about more than basketball. They represent a paradigm. Losing Sloan... it seems like the paradigm is all but dead now.