Off-Season Rumblings

[framer]

The argument is Lauri is better than anyone we will draft so if we draft someone as good or better I’m good. All this arbitrary and subjective top X player is kinda silly. Just like it’s silly that we will never draft an all star in the next 10 years given the depth of our draft resources.

Hear me out, how about we draft an all star and KEEP Lauri and then we have TWO all stars.

Because that is the rub. Even if you get the one all star you still need one or two more.

 

[David Hume]

Rudy and Don should be in there.

Technically drafted by Denver, but I see your point.

 

[David Hume]

Gobert and Mitchell have made top 15 lists. Both have made All NBA teams.

Technically drafted by Denver, but I see your point.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Hear me out, how about we draft an all star and KEEP Lauri and then we have TWO all stars.

Because that is the rub. Even if you get the one all star you still need one or two more.

I’m with you… that’s the hilarious thing. I’m saying we can draft a player as good as Lauri… I’m not saying we should trade Lauri. I’m saying in 10 years given the amount of draft capital we currently have that it’s likely we land a player as good as Lauri. Then folks think that’s disrespectful… gtfoh. My bad guys Lauri is the only good player in the league and there will never be players as good as him again.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

There have been multiple teams in the last couple of years who have had multiple top-5 picks yet didn’t draft a player as good as Lauri. It’s not as guaranteed as HH is acting.

My dude we are talking about 10 ****ing years. Quit trying to setup weird nonsense here. This isn’t anywhere close to what I’m saying.

 

[LogGrad98]

Nah… you are too negative. Have some patience… this thing can build if we make good patient decisions.

Did you type that part with a straight face?

 

[Elizah Huge]

I’m with you… that’s the hilarious thing. I’m saying we can draft a player as good as Lauri… I’m not saying we should trade Lauri. I’m saying in 10 years given the amount of draft capital we currently have that it’s likely we land a player as good as Lauri. Then folks think that’s disrespectful… gtfoh. My bad guys Lauri is the only good player in the league and there will never be players as good as him again.

You are becoming the master of playing both sides on this topic. Now you don’t want to trade Lauri… ok lol.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Did you type that part with a straight face?

I did. DA is one of the more patient long term GMs. He’s aggressive but he’s also fine waiting for the right move.

 

[LogGrad98]

I did. DA is one of the more patient long term GMs. He’s aggressive but he’s also fine waiting for the right move.

I hope you're right. Decades of history are kind of stacked against it, but hopefully this iteration of the jazz run things differently. So far I'm not super hopeful.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You are becoming the master of playing both sides on this topic. Now you don’t want to trade Lauri… ok lol.

You are becoming the master at putting weird *** arguments in places that aren’t there. I’ve laid out where I am very clearly. If you don’t understand where I am it’s an issue on your end. No where in this part of the discussion did I say trade Lauri. I’ve entertained the idea at other times… just like you have. The ideal path is to draft in the top 5 with Lauri.

You are overly concerned with being right or wrong and keeping score… this playing both sides thing you keep trying to push on me is weird. There is nuance to these things… this isn’t some political issue where I have to vote and choose a side lol.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I hope you're right. Decades of history are kind of stacked against it, but hopefully this iteration of the jazz run things differently. So far I'm not super hopeful.

Odds are stacked against winning a title but I do think we will have long term solid success if we don’t just try to shortcut things.

 

[Elizah Huge]

If we draft bottom 4 in the next two years and come away with just starters or below then we have bigger problems than deciding whether or not to tank. That’s part of the reason I think tanking could be really profitable is because the next two drafts are stacked.

If we have to trade Lauri to tank then do it. Armed with top 5 picks the next two years, the young guys we have and the ones we add this year, and then stack the additional picks plus whatever a Lauri trade yields… look it might not turn into a real contender but it’d be pretty tough to not become a talented playoff team.

HH posts stuff like this then says he doesn’t want to trade Lauri.

I’m not just making **** up. Super annoying.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

You are becoming the master at putting weird *** arguments in places that aren’t there. I’ve laid out where I am very clearly. If you don’t understand where I am it’s an issue on your end. No where in this part of the discussion did I say trade Lauri. I’ve entertained the idea at other times… just like you have. The ideal path is to draft in the top 5 with Lauri.

You are overly concerned with being right or wrong and keeping score… this playing both sides thing you keep trying to push on me is weird. There is nuance to these things… this isn’t some political issue where I have to vote and choose a side lol.

Whoa, save it for the pod you two.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Very much this. I am not team Trade Lauri... I am Team Tank. We can tank in a lot of ways. Like you I doubt Lauri is signing up for another two years of nonsense. IF we did land the dude in 2025 then 2026 is less important... but it often doesn't work that way.

My position is we should tank in the most profitable ways. So if the return for Lauri is monsterous because there aren't any sellers out there then that is a legit route to consider. If not go ahead and sell off Sexton/Walker or whatever parts make sense. I might retain Dunn as he could be a trade asset and can help us not be charmin soft. If Lauri will sign the extension and play along for a year his value is still sky high... so if the draft doesn't go our way we can pivot. I would also work to set ourselves up with a huge amount of cap space next season so that when the new rules are in full effect we can take advantage one way or another.

Now this would require a real plan... and not just doing isolated moves that make sense valuewise. So DA may actually have to fit transactions into one them for a year instead of bouncing back and forth.

Well I feel like you haven’t been paying attention then lol. I’m not out here trying to trade Lauri for whatever offer comes through the door so we can tank like the OP said. I’ve been clear I’d have a high price for him. What constitutes a godfather offer is going to be different for everyone. I’m probably more willing to move him if that monster offer came in than most here. I’m flexible… I’m not so far dug in to the “we can’t trade Lauri or we will never be good again” camp. I also think if the offers are just fair that we can walk away.

The tank race is super open. There have never been more teams trying to be good. Parity and the play in means the race to the bottom is more like a jog. We would have to trade a guy or two and allocate more time to young players. Likely won’t be as bad wiz, blazers but Pistons are trying.. hornets may not want to be a dumpster fire with new owner…spurs gonna have a hard time holding back Wemby… there likely will be a team with a bunch of injuries but getting to 5-6 shouldn’t be too difficult IF we don’t make win now moves and if we sell off one key piece. Just have to start early rather than half assing the tank.

I’m all for the “pause year” where we trade both JCs and one of Sexton or Kessler. Extend Lauri and give him more than we have to this year to get some flat no raise years later. Get expiring contracts and have copious amounts of cap space to add win now talent to our young talent and Lauri. It would just suck to be like the 5th worst team and fall to 7th in the draft.

I think he really wants to be here for a multitude of reasons. The R+E is likely super high (likely number 1). I think its also a reason you can have a direct conversation and say "we aren't bringing in extra vets or help and actually might sell off a couple pieces to help us have a high pick next year... we plan on having space and making some win now moves at some point in the next 18 months or so... you cool?" and he might play along.

Later both parties could revisit the arrangement if it is going poorly but for now get the deal done. And again... I would give him all our space or as much as we are allowed to try and get some years without raises on the backend. Will be more impactful later than it is now with an extra 10-12 million in space.

I do think it’s key to be direct. I think having the rug pulled was a big part of the issue last year. Trade off one or two vets this offseason. Roll with a lot of the young guys or guys like Lofton. Manage some injuries very conservatively.

I mean we did a whole pod about it… you had to skip through all these posts to find one the one you quoted. It’s super obvious where I stand. Reducing all that stuff to say I just want to trade Lauri is the only annoying thing. Read and comprehend @Elizah Huge

 

[fishonjazz]

Hear me out, how about we draft an all star and KEEP Lauri and then we have TWO all stars.

Because that is the rub. Even if you get the one all star you still need one or two more.

HH didn't say anything about trading Lauri in this discussion

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[Elizah Huge]

I mean we did a whole pod about it… you had to skip through all these posts to find one the one you quoted. It’s super obvious where I stand. Reducing all that stuff to say I just want to trade Lauri is the only annoying thing. Read and comprehend @Elizah Huge

Ok if you want to be a dick that’s fine. You literally have said multiple times you are fine with trading Lauri. Stop riding the fence so hard because you want to be able to point back and say you were right regardless of what happens.

You literally argued with me on the pod that we could just trade for someone of Lauri’s caliber down the road when I brought up we should keep him because we will need players like him. Did this all not happen?

 

[Elizah Huge]

HH’s stance is we should tank and if that means trading Lauri he’s all for it. That means he’s ok with trading Lauri. Am I comprehending this wrong?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Podcast host on podcast host violence.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Jazz should extend Lauri, give him a nice raise, and give themselves 2+ years to trade him. There's no urgency to trade Lauri. The urgency is more on the part of other teams who view him as their missing piece. I don't like the argument that we need to unload Lauri in order to lose more. We've already tanked the back third of two seasons with Lauri on the roster. We can do it for a full season if that's the direction we need to go.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Jazz should extend Lauri, give him a nice raise, and give themselves 2+ years to trade him. There's no urgency to trade Lauri. The urgency is more on the part of other teams who view him as their missing piece. I don't like the argument that we need to unload Lauri in order to lose more. We've already tanked the back third of two seasons with Lauri on the roster. We can do it for a full season if that's the direction we need to go.

I am no longer entertaining any trade Lauri talk. We shouldn’t trade him at all. Period. We need guys especially guys like him if we want to build a contender.