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Official Offseason Rumors Thread

Are y'all crazy talking about "setting the team back" ya know what would set the team back? if Hayward walks next offseason and they don't get jack **** for him.. a la Millsap and Jefferson..


This trade would be a bigger leap of faith for the team receiving Hayward.. They'd have to feel 100% confident in being able to resign him
 
DownUnder said:
He got to the finals once and hasn't been back since .... or even close really I love KD but the whole must have a superstar thing hasn't worked out for OKC, in face they've had 2 absolute superstars and they haven't really done diddly when it comes down to it.
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Again. Finals once and lots of playoff appearances > no playoffs. We have got zero playoff wins with hayward as our leader. I would love to see what a durant type player could do. If a durant type player only takes us to the finals once and has us as a top 5 team every year then i would be happy and consider the trade a success.
 
Batman said:
I think it's fair to say Hayward is a star. Definitely. He's just not and elite talent or a superstar. But frankly there are less than 10 guys in the league that are superstars.

Is Hayward a top 25-30 player in the league? Yeah. Those guys are stars.


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I disagree.
I think you have a level of really good players. Think hayward, tony parker, dirk, paul millsap, ibaka, mccollum, kemba walker, karl anthony towns, wiggins, etc. Then i think you have your low end all star type guys. Think jimmy butler, bosh, demar derozan, isiah thomas, kyle lowry, mike conley, klay thompson, tim duncan, kyrie irving (maybe he is in the star level even), etc. Then you have your star players. Think anthony davis, lillard, paul george, cp3, harden, westbrook, griffin, etc. Then you have superstars which is basically championship mvp type guys like kawhi, steph, lebron, and durant. Now you could definately have some guys get moved around a bit like maybe cp3 is a superstar, maybe current duncan (i was going off each player for this year only) should go down to only a really good player rather than low end all star and things like that.
But hayward doesn't belong with the star or superstar guys like the brow, dame dolla, cp3, westbrook, kawhi, steph, harden, etc etc.

we should always be trying to get one of those guys. Hayward will never be one of those guys imo. Maybe simmons will be though. You might be right that hayward is a top 30 guy in the league but that is not good enough for a teams #1 guy imo. We need to get a top 11 or 12 guy.
If we were in the playoffs then no matter who we matched up against the other team would have the best player in the game against us. If we played the spurs then leonard would be the best player in the series. If we played the warriors it would be curry. Thunder, durant. Clipps, cp3. Memphis, conley or gasol. Porland, lillard. dallas, Dirk (though i have hayward as being better than current dirk.. and dallas isn't a threat to anyone in the playoffs). Houston, harden.

Stars win playoff series. If hayward is our best and highest paid player then i dont see us winning any playoff series anytime soon cause we would always be playing a team in the playoffs with a bigger star on their team than hayward.
 
Tough spot for the Jazz. Hayward is best they got. Clearly isn't good enough. He thinks he is the man. Fans buy a lot of his jerseys. He is 26 years old. He is a FA next July. His value is exaggerated by 'Potential', and people tend to stop thinking potential about a player who is 26 years old and in his seventh season.

If you were GM, would you have the courage to trade Hayward? (which is sort of saying you are starting the rebuild over).

Would you have the confidence you could sign him next July, AND build a winning team around him?
 
I wasn't aware "potential" was an argument for Hayward at this point. And I'm not going to touch a star-measuring contest. Hayward is a really good/great player and I'd love to keep him. But if the Jazz do next year what they've pretty much done every other year he's been here, put money on him walking because he'd be a fool to stay in a losing situation. And he's not a fool.

As for Butler vs Hayward goes, they're probably in the same tier overall, but Butler has better defensive ability, and more importantly, he's under contract.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I wasn't aware "potential" was an argument for Hayward at this point. And I'm not going to touch a star-measuring contest. Hayward is a really good/great player and I'd love to keep him. But if the Jazz do next year what they've pretty much done every other year he's been here, put money on him walking because he'd be a fool to stay in a losing situation. And he's not a fool.

As for Butler vs Hayward goes, they're probably in the same tier overall, but Butler has better defensive ability, and more importantly, he's under contract.
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This is the most important point. If the jazz say they are ready to make the next step in the process and get the support that Hayward needs to win some playoff series, then they can probably keep Hayward. If not, he probably walks next summer.

Also, I think Hayward is now underrated defensively. He is big, mobile and strong. Butler is probably a better defender than him, but it's not as wide a gap as it seems.
 
PG_AB said:
Are y'all crazy talking about "setting the team back" ya know what would set the team back? if Hayward walks next offseason and they don't get jack **** for him.. a la Millsap and Jefferson..


This trade would be a bigger leap of faith for the team receiving Hayward.. They'd have to feel 100% confident in being able to resign him
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this is the reason I'd do it... but i do agree we'd win less next season with Simmons/Ingram vs. Hayward. Rookies generally don't help you win first year or two.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I wasn't aware "potential" was an argument for Hayward at this point. And I'm not going to touch a star-measuring contest. Hayward is a really good/great player and I'd love to keep him. But if the Jazz do next year what they've pretty much done every other year he's been here, put money on him walking because he'd be a fool to stay in a losing situation. And he's not a fool.

As for Butler vs Hayward goes, they're probably in the same tier overall, but Butler has better defensive ability, and more importantly, he's under contract.
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We can keep Hayward regardless of what happens next year imo. It's just would you rather pay hayward 5 year 150 M or some rookie with bigger potential much much less. I doubt Boston would do it, but who knows.

We have the inside track to keep Hayward... the raises we can give him and the extra year make it so that he would have to turn down a ton of money to do the deal. This is the guy who bought a Honda Accord with his first contract. I drive a nicer car than that. He's notoriously frugal and there is no way he will turn down the extra money.
 
If we could trade Hayward for their first and Jae Crowder, then that would be pretty awesome.
 
b_line said:
If we could trade Hayward for their first and Jae Crowder, then that would be pretty awesome.
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That would never happen. I thought the same thing but then I realized that Ainge would probably want Hayward and a future first for their top pick this year.
 
orangello said:
That would never happen. I thought the same thing but then I realized that Ainge would probably want Hayward and a future first for their top pick this year.
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I think Players who are young and established are worth more than that. I really have no idea though, so I would not be surprised at anything happening.
 
We wouldn't get crowder in a deal. Maybe Avery Bradley because they have some duplication there. The goal for them would obviously be to cash in future assets for win now stuff. They would be more likely to give up more firsts not more win now guys.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
We wouldn't get crowder in a deal. Maybe Avery Bradley because they have some duplication there. The goal for them would obviously be to cash in future assets for win now stuff. They would be more likely to give up more firsts not more win now guys.
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True. I don't think the Jazz are trading Hayward though, and I kind of get the feeling that celtics wont trade this first round pick this year. I think they start trading future assets though.
 
PG_AB said:
You don;t think they;d make the playoffs in year one?? The O/U on team wins would certainly be higher than 41..
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Did Durant help his team win his rookie year? It might work out long term because of potential but trading your top player for a young rookie never improves your team. Very very rarely does a rookie especially a 18-19 year old help you win more games. If Jazz trade Hayward they are resetting the rebuild and pushing the timeline out a year or two more minimum. The Jazz organization cannot stay in the lottery for a couple more years, they need to win next season. I would be shocked if they traded Hayward for picks. Only way he gets traded is for a vet with a better contract, but even that is unlikely unless Hayward tells them he is leaving in FA. If he hasnt told them that he is likely to stay. He likes stability and he wants to get paid, which Utah can pay him the most. He also wants to win but I think making the playoffs next year seems very very likely.

Also people would be a lot more high in Hayward on this board if we had stayed healthy this season. We would probably be where Portland is and probably beat the Clips. Hayward with a healthy team can lead a team to the 5th seed in the west. Hayward like Derozan and Butler needs help.
 
Broncster said:
Did Durant help his team win his rookie year? It might work out long term because of potential but trading your top player for a young rookie never improves your team. Very very rarely does a rookie especially a 18-19 year old help you win more games. If Jazz trade Hayward they are resetting the rebuild and pushing the timeline out a year or two more minimum. The Jazz organization cannot stay in the lottery for a couple more years, they need to win next season. I would be shocked if they traded Hayward for picks. Only way he gets traded is for a vet with a better contract, but even that is unlikely unless Hayward tells them he is leaving in FA. If he hasnt told them that he is likely to stay. He likes stability and he wants to get paid, which Utah can pay him the most. He also wants to win but I think making the playoffs next year seems very very likely.

Also people would be a lot more high in Hayward on this board if we had stayed healthy this season. We would probably be where Portland is and probably beat the Clips. Hayward with a healthy team can lead a team to the 5th seed in the west. Hayward like Derozan and Butler needs help.
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I sooo agree with this. It really seems like there are so many fans that want to chase that new tail all the time and get bored with the *** they've got locked up.

I want to watch a winning team sometime before 2020. Couple years ago we were all talking about this teams amazing potential. Even this year we were excusing losses because of our team's youth, and yet here we are talking about trading the "old" for the potential of the young.

I'm a fan of the Utah Jazz playing and winning basketball games. It seems like there are a lot of NBA fans whose interest is much more in drafting and trades. Like that's the actual sport for them. I don't really get it.
 
Gameface said:
I sooo agree with this. It really seems like there are so many fans that want to chase that new tail all the time and get bored with the *** they've got locked up.

I want to watch a winning team sometime before 2020. Couple years ago we were all talking about this teams amazing potential. Even this year we were excusing losses because of our team's youth, and yet here we are talking about trading the "old" for the potential of the young.

I'm a fan of the Utah Jazz playing and winning basketball games. It seems like there are a lot of NBA fans whose interest is much more in drafting and trades. Like that's the actual sport for them. I don't really get it.
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I'm not disagreeing with you here, but ****ing up and not making the playoffs this year has put the whole rebuild into some jeopardy. What happens if injuries strike again next year? What happens if we go out in the first round like a lamb? Hayward will walk, broseph. Walk. How's your rebuild look then?
 
How would this board view Hayward if we were a 5th seed this year and win the series against the Clips?

That scenario is more than likely if we have an average injury year. Or even if we have an average record in close games that are statistically luck who wins.

Is the best player on a team that is a 5th seed and the youngest team in the West worth a max contract in this market? Would Portland be looking to trade Lillard if he was going to be a FA after next season?

Hayward is 1 year older than Lillard he shot a better percentage and did score 5 less points but took 5 less shots a game. Hayward is a far superior defender to Lillard. Haywards team is much younger and has many less vets. Hayward was asked to do more for his team. Hayward played more minutes than Lillard for the season and on a per game basis. Hayward ran more miles in the season on the court. Haywards hobbled team that he lead only came up 4 games short of what Lillards did. Hayward is on the same level as Lillard. If you replace Hayward for Paul George, Lillard, Butler, Derozan, Dwayne Wade or Klay Thompson. Those teams probably win the same number of games.

Hayward is not even in my top 3 current favorite Jazz players but the hate on this board is unreal. Then he will have a good game and this board thinks he is MJ. We are so Bi-polar. Hayward is a top 20-25 player right now. Every team will have 1 or 2 max players. Yes it would be nice if our max player was a top 5-10 but we are not getting a player in that tier.
 
Broncster said:
How would this board view Hayward if we were a 5th seed this year and win the series against the Clips?

That scenario is more than likely if we have an average injury year. Or even if we have an average record in close games that are statistically luck who wins.

Is the best player on a team that is a 5th seed and the youngest team in the West worth a max contract in this market? Would Portland be looking to trade Lillard if he was going to be a FA after next season?

Hayward is 1 year older than Lillard he shot a better percentage and did score 5 less points but took 5 less shots a game. Hayward is a far superior defender to Lillard. Haywards team is much younger and has many less vets. Hayward was asked to do more for his team. Hayward played more minutes than Lillard for the season and on a per game basis. Hayward ran more miles in the season on the court. Haywards hobbled team that he lead only came up 4 games short of what Lillards did. Hayward is on the same level as Lillard. If you replace Hayward for Paul George, Lillard, Butler, Derozan, Dwayne Wade or Klay Thompson. Those teams probably win the same number of games.

Hayward is not even in my top 3 current favorite Jazz players but the hate on this board is unreal. Then he will have a good game and this board thinks he is MJ. We are so Bi-polar. Hayward is a top 20-25 player right now. Every team will have 1 or 2 max players. Yes it would be nice if our max player was a top 5-10 but we are not getting a player in that tier.
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Please sell all of those hypotheticals to Gordon when we are in contract negotiations.
 
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