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Officiating in Jazz-Clippers game

I think it is more that incompetence. The NBA game has become so physical that basketball skills are secondary to physicality and toughness. So much physical play is tolerated that the line between a foul and a wrestling match has become blurred. The fact that Hayward was called called for the Double T, when he was just trying to get Mo to let go of him is evidence of my point.

The Griffin flop... well that is also a result of the level of physicality that is common in the NBA game. There is so much contact that it is hard to tell who supplied the force.

I still watch the Jazz, but beyond that, I find the games so ugly, that I have lost a lot of interest. The special rules depending on whether you are a star, rookie, or whatever also play in to it.
I though the GS game was a joke. Just push people around. That will take them out of their game.

Sorry for the vent.... I have been waiting for a while to get this off my chest.
I am sure there will be those who disagree, but I think the NBA game has lost some of its luster, and the officiating is part of the problem.
 
I'm with the refs, Clippers, and Stern on this.
First of all, look at that first fould on Sap, did you see the look on his face. You can tell he had the intent to do something harmful to the Golden Boy, and you can't even think it. We are judged after the intents of our hearts after all.

Secondly, 2nd year white players should know better than to attempt athletic plays, or jump high enough to block a shot into the stands. It just looks wrong, and if it looks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Hayward is either on steroids, or he pushed off of some invisible Clippers player to get that high... clearly. The goaltending call was just to make it so Hayward did not get into foul trouble, it was really a charitable gift from the ref.

Finally, if a flop happens on the road, and the ref is paid to not see it, does it still count as a foul? The answer is yes. Trout and I discussed this in another thread, and the answer came out to be a definite maybe. Stern has orchestrated the rise of the Clippers, and he will continue to do so through any means available to him. If that means Sap gets called for a foul on an obvious flop, so be it. Do not cross David "Tony Montana" Stern. Griffin was trained well, but not well enough. He needs to make it look more natural. You can see him get ready, set his legs, and tense up before the contact and orchestrated fall. He's an amateur thesbian at best, and but will continue to get the calls because his godfather has his back, and owns the refs. You just don't fight the mob, you will not win, and you will be out money as Mr Cuban continues to learn.

Oh, p.s. -- we can blame the refs. Even though some people say (insert nerd voice) "we cant blame missed shots, free throws, rebounds, or lack of hustle on the refs"... while that is true sort of , it's also a lame argument that if we were only 5 possessions better than the Clippers instead of 3 possessions better we would have won the game. Yes if we crushed and destroyed every team the refs couldn't ruin it for us... but we are not that good. I see no problem in blaming the refs here and there when we are still better than another team on a given night, and the refs hand the game to the other team. Yes we can take responsibility and we cannot control things like that... but it still sticks in my craw that we would have to be much better than a team to win, instead of just a bit better than them.

[/attitude][attitude]
 
JazzSpazz said:
I'm with the refs, Clippers, and Stern on this.
First of all, look at that first fould on Sap, did you see the look on his face. You can tell he had the intent to do something harmful to the Golden Boy, and you can't even think it. We are judged after the intents of our hearts after all.

Secondly, 2nd year white players should know better than to attempt athletic plays, or jump high enough to block a shot into the stands. It just looks wrong, and if it looks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Hayward is either on steroids, or he pushed off of some invisible Clippers player to get that high... clearly. The goaltending call was just to make it so Hayward did not get into foul trouble, it was really a charitable gift from the ref.

Finally, if a flop happens on the road, and the ref is paid to not see it, does it still count as a foul? The answer is yes. Trout and I discussed this in another thread, and the answer came out to be a definite maybe. Stern has orchestrated the rise of the Clippers, and he will continue to do so through any means available to him. If that means Sap gets called for a foul on an obvious flop, so be it. Do not cross David "Tony Montana" Stern. Griffin was trained well, but not well enough. He needs to make it look more natural. You can see him get ready, set his legs, and tense up before the contact and orchestrated fall. He's an amateur thesbian at best, and but will continue to get the calls because his godfather has his back, and owns the refs. You just don't fight the mob, you will not win, and you will be out money as Mr Cuban continues to learn.

Oh, p.s. -- we can blame the refs. Even though some people say (insert nerd voice) "we cant blame missed shots, free throws, rebounds, or lack of hustle on the refs"... while that is true sort of , it's also a lame argument that if we were only 5 possessions better than the Clippers instead of 3 possessions better we would have won the game. Yes if we crushed and destroyed every team the refs couldn't ruin it for us... but we are not that good. I see no problem in blaming the refs here and there when we are still better than another team on a given night, and the refs hand the game to the other team. Yes we can take responsibility and we cannot control things like that... but it still sticks in my craw that we would have to be much better than a team to win, instead of just a bit better than them.

[/attitude][attitude]
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Dang that was good.

Back in the 08 playoffs, when LA was clearly getting major help from the refs, especially after game 4, lots of people were calling in to KFAN to complain and all the hosts told everyone to shut up.
I wrote in to their board and basically said what is bolded. They actually read my comments on the air and mentioned my "bad attitude" for a couple of days.
 
The Los Angeles Clippers had 3 of the top 10 vote getters in the West for the pending All Star Game, (and so did the other LA team , 6 of 10 between them, wow.)
Griffin and Paul were voted starters.

The Jazz destroyed the Clips in their previous game, (without Paul), and Millsap made superstar-dunker Griffin look weak.

Maybe this was coincidence, or common star treatment, but I can see some motive for the league to not see Griffin and co. get embarrassed by Millsap and co. again.

Hopefully its just coincidence, or just one game.
 
The problem with complaining about officiating is this: the glaring mistakes are always obvious on TV. But there's countless other plays where TV doesn't get close enough and you can't really tell. So there's no way to do the accounting.

The only thing I'd say about the Clips game is Griffin had 5 fouls relatively early. There were a number of plays from that point on where I wondered if he got the kid gloves treatment. Refs are human, and they don't want to foul out a superstar unless it's clear because they know that 6th foul will be heavily scrutinized (the other 5, of course, get forgotten.)
 
Statistically speaking, with regard to your first paragraph , one can generally draw a valid conclusion from a subset of data.
 
northeast said:
Statistically speaking, with regard to your first paragraph , one can generally draw a valid conclusion from a subset of data.
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I don't see where subsets of data apply. If 4 egregiously wrong calls happen to team X on TV, we still have to know how the ledger balanced out to decide if Team Y got screwed.

Human error is part of this equation. So I can't get up in arms because the most glaring mistakes in any given game went against us or for us. On virtually every play of every game a guy grunts, glares at the ref, or rubs some part of his hand, arm, or face to express a foul was missed. On TV you can't tell unless there's a replay, and even then replays can be very deceiving.
 
I didn't watch the clips and I hardly saw any of the game, I just wanted to remark that I have never seen a player so clearly and regularly dogged by refs as Sap has been. If he's in the middle of a fray, it's a no-call (common), if he plays sensible but remotely physical defense, it's a call against him. Millsap's a wonderful guy so it speaks volumes that I'm just now starting to see him crack under the bull **** of the calls he's been getting (or not) over the last 5+ seasons.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I didn't watch the clips and I hardly saw any of the game, I just wanted to remark that I have never seen a player so clearly and regularly dogged by refs as Sap has been. If he's in the middle of a fray, it's a no-call (common), if he plays sensible but remotely physical defense, it's a call against him. Millsap's a wonderful guy so it speaks volumes that I'm just now starting to see him crack under the bull **** of the calls he's been getting (or not) over the last 5+ seasons.
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Sap is not helping himself complaining on every offensive possession. He's always glaring or rubbing some part of his head to indicate a foul was missed. And every facial expression he makes is like he's in a hot box in Nam drinking his own urine from a dirty towel.

All guys complain about missed fouls. But he's got to be a little less expressive than he is.
 
Would you rather have our players having to complain to the ref's over injustices real or perceived... or laughing and high fiving the other players and bench because of flops and fouls called on people for breathing on you?

Sadly refs might respond to enough complaining, but they seem to never change their calls if you let it go. You may hate the complaining, but it is only an attempt at results. This is also why Coaches complain and rip on the refs. Sloan did it, but do you think he did it just for fun? No, he did it for results. Pretty much everything Sloan did and said had an agenda, including what he said to the media.
 
I agree with Bill, in that I believe that HOW you talk to the refs can effect how they will treat you to a degree, either for better or for worse, although it shouldn't.

I disagree with SPazz about Sloan, I think much of the complaining he did was neither planned nor effective.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I didn't watch the clips and I hardly saw any of the game, I just wanted to remark that I have never seen a player so clearly and regularly dogged by refs as Sap has been. If he's in the middle of a fray, it's a no-call (common), if he plays sensible but remotely physical defense, it's a call against him. Millsap's a wonderful guy so it speaks volumes that I'm just now starting to see him crack under the bull **** of the calls he's been getting (or not) over the last 5+ seasons.
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At least watch the first play on the first clip, I have never seen anything like it.
 
Milsaps been whining on everything even non-fouls.
Eventually he'll have the power of 1000 whines and will get his way.
 
I would say the foul at 6 - 6, and the Hayward goal tend go beyond being a bad call, they belong in some special category of super badness.
You don't see calls like that very often.

Bill, did you watch the game and did you look at the clips?
I am aware that sometimes the bias of the fans cause them to focus only on one side and not the other, and I try to filter my opinions with that awareness. However, it seems to me you are making a boiler plate argument that could be used about any criticism of the refs, regardless of what actually happened.

If you look at the clips , the last play on clip 1, the second Millsap and 1 was not a terrible call, but taken in the contest of that game, it appeared to me that the refs let a similar thing go without a call many times on the other end, although I admit that I don't have replays with great angles of all those instances to prove my opinion.

If you spent hours reviewing tape of the game and impartially evaluating all the calls, I think you would find that the Clippers got a decisive edge from the refs in this one.
 
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Thanks for opening those wounds again. So obviously got robbed. I kne it at the time, but oh well. Then the same usual morons saying how the Jazz should have done this or that, blah blah. Hard to win playing 8 on 5, bottom line. SHOULDNT HAVE TO.
 
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