Okur for Hamilton?

[jimmyjazz]

Even if there was a rational reason to trade for Hamilton (and there's not), there is no way KOC is saddling himself with any unjustifiable salary in the year Deron could walk (12-13). As presently constituted, the Jazz only have Jefferson, Sap, and Hayward firmly on the books for that season. Both Jeff and Sap are in walk years with plenty of flexibility to be resigned, and Hayward could get the Mo Almond treatment if he isn't panning out.

There's Bell too in the books. And a fair number of people want to extend AK at a "discount" (which could mean anything from mid-level to the half-price of 8M maybe). But you think KOC is sticking with this good but still flawed team until Deron walks? KOC and Miller keep with this good-enough mentality, Deron will walk.

The rationale is that at the cost of a defense-challenged backup center, the Jazz would get a starting SG actually known for shooting, which I'd put as the third most important thing to a Jazz team after a great PG and a great PF; certainly ahead of importance over a backup center.

 

[carolinajazz]

The rationale is that at the cost of a defense-challenged backup center, the Jazz would get a starting SG actually known for shooting, which I'd put as the third most important thing to a Jazz team after a great PG and a great PF; certainly ahead of importance over a backup center.

....good, sound reasoning. But would Detroit make this trade?

 

[gregbroncs]

There's Bell too in the books. And a fair number of people want to extend AK at a "discount" (which could mean anything from mid-level to the half-price of 8M maybe). But you think KOC is sticking with this good but still flawed team until Deron walks? KOC and Miller keep with this good-enough mentality, Deron will walk.

The rationale is that at the cost of a defense-challenged backup center, the Jazz would get a starting SG actually known for shooting, which I'd put as the third most important thing to a Jazz team after a great PG and a great PF; certainly ahead of importance over a backup center.

Your still missing the point. Hamilton is barely a starting caliber SG right now. If fact he probably is not a starting caliber SG right now. He is shooting 40% this year less than both Bell and Miles. And he shot 40% last year. He also makes double what Bell and Miles currently make combined. Bell and Miles are both Shooting better, better defender's, and just overall better players at this point in their careers. I don't think Hamilton is any longer better in any way than Bell or Miles. Let alone worth double what they both make combined.

I don't think any team in the league still wants Hamilton at his pay. And that includes Detroit. So why are a few Jazz fans on here still pining for a guy 3 years minimum past his usefulness with a full 3 years left on a bad contract to begin with.

As far as Bell I think the 3rd year is non-guaranteed, or a team option, something like that so technically he's not on the books past Deron.

 

[The Thriller]

Here's a question, have any of you seen Rip play in the last two years?

This is not the same Rip that beat the Lakers in 04. That was nearly 7 years ago people.

 

[franklin]

Does anyone remember where Okur came from? Pistons didn't resign him then. Why do it years later for essentially the same money but declined production?

 

[billyshelby]

There's Bell too in the books. And a fair number of people want to extend AK at a "discount" (which could mean anything from mid-level to the half-price of 8M maybe). But you think KOC is sticking with this good but still flawed team until Deron walks? KOC and Miller keep with this good-enough mentality, Deron will walk.

The rationale is that at the cost of a defense-challenged backup center, the Jazz would get a starting SG actually known for shooting, which I'd put as the third most important thing to a Jazz team after a great PG and a great PF; certainly ahead of importance over a backup center.

Forgot about Bell. So that's 3.5 million less to play with. The point is still the same. Going into 12-13, when Deron will have to decide whether to opt out or not, KOC will be in a fairly unique bargaining position. There will be A) ONLY guys Deron already wants to play with--resigned players in some combo of Al, Sap, CJ, etc. and/or B) tons of flexibility to build a team around him. By then, Deron might actually be able to recruit an FA to Utah (imagine that.)

Now there may be guys bringing salary into that season KOC would gamble on. And Rip does have only partial guarantees for that season (although I still think it's like 9 million going off my memory.) But Deron will have to choose to leave the Jazz despite an already solid base and tons of Cap Room. KOC is playing his hand pretty well on this. Unless he trades for Hamilton, of course.

 

[jimmyjazz]

I don't think any team in the league still wants Hamilton at his pay. And that includes Detroit. So why are a few Jazz fans on here still pining for a guy 3 years minimum past his usefulness with a full 3 years left on a bad contract to begin with.

And nobody wants Okur at what he's making either. Except perhaps for the team that has Hamilton, which also happens to desperately need size. It's a trade-off but it's not like we'd be trading Deron or even AK or heck Hayward here. The Jazz already have Jefferson and Millsap up front, with Elson and maybe a healthy Fes as subs. But the could still use a "shooting" guard.

As to Hamilton's usefulness, this season he's still averaging 14 points despite getting only 26 minutes and has still had multiple 20+-point games. Obviously he won't be back in his prime but he could fluorish again in the Jazz system, playing alongside Deron instead of Stuckey in the backcourt and with Jefferson/Sap instead of Chucker Villanueva.

I'd still speculate that if the Jazz can get Hamilton by just getting rid of Okur, the Jazz would be a better team.

 

[gregbroncs]

And nobody wants Okur at what he's making either. Except perhaps for the team that has Hamilton, which also happens to desperately need size. It's a trade-off but it's not like we'd be trading Deron or even AK or heck Hayward here. The Jazz already have Jefferson and Millsap up front, with Elson and maybe a healthy Fes as subs. But the could still use a "shooting" guard.

As to Hamilton's usefulness, this season he's still averaging 14 points despite getting only 26 minutes and has still had multiple 20+-point games. Obviously he won't be back in his prime but he could fluorish again in the Jazz system, playing alongside Deron instead of Stuckey in the backcourt and with Jefferson/Sap instead of Chucker Villanueva.

I'd still speculate that if the Jazz can get Hamilton by just getting rid of Okur, the Jazz would be a better team.

Most teams would choose Okur for 2 years over Hamilton for 3 at more salary per year than Okur. Trading Okur right now is worthless. If he gets back to full speed and playing the way he can he is a much better asset than Hamilton right now at less salary. If he doesn't then nobody wants him and he comes off the books after next year. Either way i'd rather keep Okur over Hamilton.

 

[Fakers Luck]

Does anyone remember where Okur came from? Pistons didn't resign him then. Why do it years later for essentially the same money but declined production?

Pistons had just won their championship and they would have loved to have kept Memo, but they could only offer midlevel money for him. He was paid way more by Utah. As of right now, Detroit is trying to rebuild and sell the team. That means they need to get shorter-term deals on the books ASAP. Until they move Rip, the rebuilding will be delayed much too long.

KOC and the Millers are motivated to avoid long term, expensive deals with the new collective bargaining agreement coming. KOC will sit on AK's contract and let it expire. Next year, Memo's contract may be a very useful expiring deal especially if he is playing better.