Okur Update

[One Brow]

He held Yao to his averages.

Relying on mostly single coverage. Other teams often needed double-teams to keep Yao to his averages. You don't think that's a big advantage?

Great, he can kind-of guard one player in this league.

He can guard any back-to-the-basket center, and does a better job than most bigs in that regard. It's not enough to make him a good defender, but it's enough that (when you add in the rebounding and boxing out) he's not horrible.

 

[cowhide]

I think Okur is definitely going to help the Jazz when he comes back. However, I think he is going to be key off the bench because the Jazz are going to need his scoring and I think he can play with AJ in certain situations. For instance, against the Lakers he is going to force either Gasol or Bynum out of the key to cover him. Phil Jackson even mentioned last year that the Jazz are a tougher matchup with Okur because they are forced to cover him at the 3 pt line.

However on the defensive end Okur will struggle with athletic bigger guys so it is a pick your poision scenario. I also think Okur is necessary at end of game situations with his 3 pt shooting ability.

I have appreciated Okur's shooting, hustle and effort for the most part over the years but he has a few major liabilities on the defensive and offensive end. I think it is essential that he comes back and plays 20-25 night. I am not sold on Fess or Elson being effective every night. Besides he gives us another big body and six more fouls. Nevertheless, I certainly thought the Jazz were dumb to extend him and when he went down it certainly was a bad move. Take that eleven million off the board, and Matthews would still be a Jazzman.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't know if Matthews would still be here (it would've certainly changed the RFA market for Matthews, but if he gets the same offer the Jazz would be fools to match, regardless), but the possibility is increased.

For me, the extension affects everything currently, including whether the Jazz keep AK this year or not and obviously if the Jazz pay the tax this year (which is nearly a certainty). His extension also affects the Jazz's ability to re-sign AK and Fes which now it's almost a certainty they can't keep both. Which if either has an especially good year (I'm feeling both will) will guarantee that at least one is gone.

 

[NUMBERICA]

And Memo certainly has some value, but having less Ronnie Brewer at the wing automatically diminishes that value. I would never even come to the table for an extension if his camp was asking for more than the MLE and let him play his contract year and go from there.

And I don't know if the Jazz would've had a shot at Matt Bonner had they pursued him, but the Jazz also would've had that option as a possibility to pursue if they just let Memo play out the year. Matt Bonner at $3-$4 million/year is a hell of a lot better than Memo at $11 million if they could've swung it. IMO.

 

[Revolution 9]

I'm not sure where all the hatred for Okur comes from. How many complete centers are there in the NBA?
I agree Okur is weak on defense. And he's one of those hybrid 4/5's vs. a true 5. But his defensive weaknesses were exacerbated by having Boozer play next to him and neither were real low-post threats on offense. I think we're going to see a much more balanced offense with Big Al playing alongside Millsap or Okur. Jefferson can play down low, and if he gets doubled, he'll be able to kick it out to Millsap or Okur, who both have great mid-range games (with Okur all the way out to the 3).

It was only 2 years ago when Okur had that fantastic stretch of hitting 60% of his 3's when Boozer was out. Avgs of about 16/8 with the Jazz on 46%/38%. Those are great numbers. Just take a look at what centers are paid. $11M is at worst a fair price for a 16/8 center (excluding the guys still on their rookie contracts, of course).

The "hatred" for Okur comes from how he fits in with our lineup. He's not a bad Center. You are right. How many complete C's are there in the NBA.
Not many. It's just that Okur and Boozer were NEVER going to work. Both were bad on defense most of the time. That will NEVER win you a title.
So there is a fair point to be made that Okur might play better with Big Al. I'll tell you this we need his outside shooting more than ever before.

The past is the past, but I hope you can see why some posters such as myself were "hated" Okur. He wasn't the answer alongside Boozer.
Now that he is older and probably slower after this injury I'm still worried that he isn't the answer. Had we had a defensive big to play alongside Memo,
or we used Memo as a backup I think people would view him better. If Memo starts, and you want to win a title, you better hope you have great defense
to back him up. Anyways, I enjoyed your post, and wanted to answer you first question posed.

 

[memo is money]

Guess you dorks forgot about how Memo was pretty much carrying the team at the end of the season when Boozer and AK were hurt, and how he tried to play through an injury in the playoffs that led to his achilles season ending / possibly career threatening injury ... what a bunch of ungrateful retards on this site. Give the guy some credit. He played his heart out and all you can say is that he's terrible.

+1

 

[NotDeadYet]

Always liked Okur's overall game; at the time we got him, it was a good move. However, as has been noted, him and Boozer together were bad karma on D though.
Okur reminds me a lot of Jerry Lucas, who played with the Knicks better-known C, Willis Reed. He was all of 6'9" playing C, and was a deadly long-range shooter too. Had to be a very smart player to survive as a C, and he was; won an NBA championship...

 

[Hopper]

Them Knicks, they ROCKED, eh, Dead!? Clyde, Earl da Pearl, Davy Debussierre, Dollar Bill Bradley, Reed, Lucas, Phil Jackson, Dean the dream Meminger--who else, I forget now?

 

[NotDeadYet]

Dick Barnett and his backward kick when he took his jump shot. Got a lot of foul shots off that; looked ungainly, but was effective. And Cazzie Russell and another F came off the bench to light up the scoreboard; can't remember his name, dang it!
Clyde was my man; easily my all-time favorite NBAer. I'll never forget his game 7 vs. the great Jerry West; 36 points, 19 assists, 7 boards, and 5 steals with Willis Reed hobbled. Clyde didn't play a real physical game, but had hands quicker than a lizard's tongue; picked West clean more than once...
Found a good pic of him at a Knick reunion; scroll down a bit:
https://latinosports.com/basketball...greats-remembers-69-70-championship-team.html
Thanks for jarring my memory archive a bit!

 

[NotDeadYet]

Hopper, got it; it was Dave Stallworth and Cazzie Russell off the Knicks bench who done a lot of scoring. Mike Riordan was another good feisty bench player.

 

[Hopper]

Cazzie! I remember watchin that boy in high school. I forgot about him. He way a fairly bigtime player on other teams before he got to the Knicks. But, yo right, Frazier was DOWN!

Kinda sounds like this year's Jazz, ya know?:

“A lot of the Knick players don’t know the legacy that we were once an elite team, and how we did it with the teamwork and unselfish play and defense. How intimidating this place can be when you’re winning at ‘The World’s Most Famous Arena.’” (Frazier)

“You knew that you could lean on your teammates,” Bill Bradley said, pinpointing the key to their success as a group. “Everybody picked up and you knew that was going to happen. Not because somebody told you that, but because that’s how well we knew each other as people, not just as players.”

There's another thread about the Laker's "Big 3," but the Big 3 couldn't handle the Big 5, eh?

"A Lakers roster that included hall of famers Elgin Baylor, Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain insured this would be no easy task, even for the NBA’s finest. The teams split the first four, as game five at MSG proved crucial. “The big game was game five,” Reed explained"

 

[aaquaa]

What was that Tarantino movie again?






Ungratefull ********?

 

[Inn Dawn]

LOL @ Slow-as-Molasses Ogur playing last night. We'd have lost by forty had he played.