Olympics Thread

[Step-Back Lauri]

Yeah but the abnormally high level of testosterone isn’t fair to the other ladies.

As weren't Phelps feet to other male swimmers. Tough break. Top sports is a lot about anomalities. People just don't seem to see that the things actually are comparable, bc we're talking about in either case about women in women's sports, or men in men's sports, that just happen to have very different kind of advantages. Gender hormones are not also the only thing to decide person's gender and capabilities, which us why we haven't yet seen "abnormal female athletes" that only based by that, have been million times better than any woman in the respected sport, ever.

As we don't have more than women's and men's series as they are, are we now starting to ban sports for every female assigned that just happens to have abnormal levels of hormones? How many of them have actually been dangerous in marshall arts? How many if them have actually been so overpowering that no one in worlds history haven't come even close to their records? Even Semenya couldn't break 800m WR. 90's legend Maria Mutola also was just a little bit slower than Semenya. Top sports is about anomalities, and unless you don't come up with a whole new setup for series where they go, we should allow them be in their respected genders series.

The whole invasive medication can't neither be ethically sound long term solution. Both Semenya and 200m silver medalist Mboma from Tokyo 2021 went through hell trying to please the tie wearing gender fascists. https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/06/spor...ne-limits-world-athletics-spt-intl/index.html

 

[The Midnight]

As weren't Phelps fett to other male swimmers. Tough break. Top sports is a lot about anomalities.

As we don't have more than women's and men's series as they are, are we now starting to ban sports for every female assigned that just happens to have abnormal levels of hormones? How many of them have actually been dangerous in marshall arts? How many if them have actually been so overpowering that no one in worlds history haven't come even close to their records? Even Semenya couldn't break 800m WR. 90's legend Maria Mutola also was just a little bit slower than Semenya. Top sports is about anomalities, and unless you don't come up with a whole new setup for series where they go, we should allow them be in their respected genders series.

The whole invasive medication can't neither be ethically sound long term solution. Both Semenya and 200m silver medalist Mboma from Tokyo 2021 went through hell trying to please the tie wearing gender fascists. https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/06/spor...ne-limits-world-athletics-spt-intl/index.html

Yeah but I’ve just looked it up and male has about 20 times higher levels of testosterone to female.

We’re not talking comparable more, we’re talking a lot more.

That’s too big a gap in my opinion for it to be a fair fight.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Separate from the Algerian boxer case which seems to be based on a corrupt organization disqualifying her for nebulous reasons… the wingspan/height argument isn’t it at all. We don’t have 6 foot and under leagues in basketball but we do have men’s and women’s leagues. Why? If your argument is we shouldn’t have men’s and women’s sports then fine… but comparing attributes we don’t separate based on things we do is a terrible argument. Same with the “well they aren’t dominating” argument.

Again… the boxers case seems pretty obvious that she should be allowed to participate and the IOC said it’s not a DSD issue… I’ve only been reading Twitter and not fully fact checking things so could be wrong. It’s complex obviously if there are issues it would be nice to have some transparency but our current world is not able to have nuance and understanding.

Uhh, what? It's a great argument.

Women/Mens sports exist because there's an even distribution men and women in the world.

And yes, 6 foot and under leagues do exist. If you want to be a short king who is scared of playing taller guys, you can go join a weaker league and play. They don't exist on a professional level because on a pro level people want to see the best.

So any genetic advantage you have should be celebrated and allowed. Proving male/female should be as simple as possible and not require incredibly invasive testing to prove either way. Were you born a man or woman? Pretty simple.

I would go a step further and allow people who transition to compete as the sex they transitioned to, but I get that is more radical for the current times.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yeah but I’ve just looked it up and male has about 20 times higher levels of testosterone to female.

We’re not talking comparable more, we’re talking a lot more.

That’s too big a gap in my opinion for it to be a fair fight.

The female boxer who started this whole conversation had like a 15-9 record with elevated T levels. High testosterone has its advantages, but isn't the end all be all to being a great athlete.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Male has 20 times the level of testosterone to female.

How is that a fair fight?

What do you know about testosterone? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? How has the Algerian boxer lost so many matches with such high T levels if it's an insane advantage?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Uhh, what? It's a great argument.

It’s not lol

Women/Mens sports exist because there's an even distribution men and women in the world.

Yes because it’s an even population lol. Nope.

And yes, 6 foot and under leagues do exist. If you want to be a short king who is scared of playing taller guys, you can go join a weaker league and play. They don't exist on a professional level because on a pro level people want to see the best.

My bad can I sign up to represent the country in the men’s Olympics under 6 foot league? Jebus I understand for rec purposes there are a billion types of leagues including men and women mixed leagues. Don’t be stupid.

So any genetic advantage you have should be celebrated and allowed. Proving male/female should be as simple as possible and not require incredibly invasive testing to prove either way. Were you born a man or woman? Pretty simple.

I don’t disagree that it should be simple. Certain people’s biology is not that simple though. I’m fine if this is the standard though. I’m not smart enough to determine the standard but would like to avoid unnecessary invasive testing at pretty much all costs.

I would go a step further and allow people who transition to compete as the sex they transitioned to, but I get that is more radical for the current times.

I’m not smart enough to make that determination.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

IDK how it works in females, but having hyper elevated T for a male vs other males isn't a big advantage as long as the other males have their T levels at a normal level . I think T levels is such a hyped thing because of marketing towards males who are out of shape in their 30s to get on TRT.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yes because it’s an even population lol. Nope.

Please enlighten me then. It's not about being even. If it was being even we would see males and females complete against each other based on predeterminations about their athletic progress in a given sport.

1. That would be incredibly difficult and laborious
2. We do it by male/female because it's easy and gives the most representation to a wide range of the population (because male/female are evenly distributed if no human interference)

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Please enlighten me then. It's not about being even. If it was being even we would see males and females complete against each other based on predeterminations about their athletic progress in a given sport.

1. That would be incredibly difficult and laborious
2. We do it by male/female because it's easy and gives the most representation to a wide range of the population (because male/female are evenly distributed if no human interference)

I didn’t think you could get any dumber… but here we are.

 

[HermanG]

Inclusivity of 0.0000000001% of population shouldn’t come at the expense or harm of the vast majority.

That’s my take.

My take is that the goal of your take was just to light the board on fire after the super polarizing discussion had already died.

 

[fishonjazz]

Male has 20 times the level of testosterone to female.

How is that a fair fight?

We are not talking about a male boxing against a female
We are talking about a female with more testerone boxing against a female. Like a male with more testerone boxing against a male. Or a male with longer arms boxing against a male.

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[The Midnight]

The female boxer who started this whole conversation had like a 15-9 record with elevated T levels. High testosterone has its advantages, but isn't the end all be all to being a great athlete.

Try asking other female athletes and see if they think it’s fair.

 

[fishonjazz]

Uhh, what? It's a great argument.

Women/Mens sports exist because there's an even distribution men and women in the world.

I disagree here. If there were no men's and women's leagues then there would just be no women at all in most sports (at the top levels).

The reason there are women's and men's leagues is to be fair.

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[fishonjazz]

Try asking other female athletes and see if they think it’s fair.

They have been asked and the answer is yes, they think it's fair for female boxers to box against other female boxers.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

I didn’t think you could get any dumber… but here we are.

You have offered absolutely nothing other than just grandstanding on a "both sides" argument of nothingness

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Try asking other female athletes and see if they think it’s fair.

They seem to think it's fair because they fight her and beat her. The Italian just wanted to make some money being a grifter.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

My take is that the goal of your take was just to light the board on fire after the super polarizing discussion had already died.

Hes a genuinely ****** person

 

[idiot]

(eYeah but the abnormally high level of testosterone isn’t fair to the other ladies.

You didn't read the article that I recommended (but you responded to nonetheless), did you?

If you had, you'd know that there hasn't been any accusations about testosterone being thrown around (except by maybe the right-wing culture warriors).

 

[fishonjazz]

I mean I get why people think that born men shouldn't be able to transition and compete against women.
The advantage that men have over women athletically is different than the advantage that being tall or whatever gives.

For example, in the nba there are very tall players like gobert and wemby. But there are also very short players as well. There are dudes with long arms and short arms. There are dudes who can jump really high and there are Joe Ingles. What there isn't are any women. Why? It's not because women aren't allowed in the NBA. If a woman was good enough to play in the NBA then she would be in the NBA. There just aren't any women in the entire world that are good enough to play in the NBA. Same with the top leagues in soccer, football, rugby, tennis, golf, etc. those sports aren't trying to keep women from playing with the men. They want the best athletes at those sports regardless of sex. They just want to win. Women just aren't able to compete against men in any of those sports. The fastest women time in the 100 meters in history would probably not be in the top 50 of fastest men's time.
The farthest drive that a woman ever hit in golf wouldn't mean anything compared with the men's longest drives. Serena Williams most powerful serve she ever hit would not be anywhere close to Nadal, Djokovic, etc. Same thing with discus, weightlifting, long distance running, long jump, swimming etc.
That is why we separate men's and women's sports.
It is what it is.

But in this instance (the Olympic women's boxing) I don't see an issue.

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[NAOS_pt2]

My take is that the goal of your take was just to light the board on fire after the super polarizing discussion had already died.

You realize you’ve quoted a poster with over a decade of troll-baiting troll behavior, right?

It’s incredible that this board continues to be a flammable place for him.