Omnibus Gordon Hayward Thread (To clean up the Board some)

[Jazz Spazz]

Well said.

I'm still torn on matching/declining. Fingers crossed for a sign-and-trade.

Who would be dumb enough to do a sign and trade to pay him even more money? Am I missing something? Or are you thinking the Hornets will adjust the offer to remove the kicker in order to facilitate a sign and trade with the Jazz? Can they do that, the offer is not locked in until signed, correct?

 

[GVC]

Who would be dumb enough to do a sign and trade to pay him even more money? Am I missing something? Or are you thinking the Hornets will adjust the offer to remove the kicker in order to facilitate a sign and trade with the Jazz? Can they do that, the offer is not locked in until signed, correct?

Can't get more money. They could agree to a sign-and-trade to ensure Utah doesn't match. Utah gets a player and a pick (or something like that), Charlotte gets Gordo.

Also, the kicker doesn't affect the sign-and-trade, and perhaps Charlotte could remove the kicker in a sign-and-trade.

 

[TroutBum]

Why did DL need to bait someone into taking him off our hands?

I have no idea, nor will I even pretend to know. I like to imagine, however, that DL somehow manipulated Jordan into thinking he was going to screw us (like Portland did to us) and then we reversed it. Like others have stated, it doesn't make sense, from a business standpoint, to tell the world you'll match any offer before any offer is even made. Why would any professional destroy their only possible bargaining chip unless:

A) We're talking about a franchise player that everyone knows you're going to match.

Or

B) We're playing mind games. Utah has a history of making these kind of mistakes in the past, so is it so hard to believe we would do it again?

I think DL is brilliant.

 

[TroutBum]

Man i'm posting for 6 hours on Realgm Knicks board melo thread as you know i'm the no 1 melo fan and you know, my brain is erupting right now lol.

So you're a dumbass then?

Your posts make a lot more sense now.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I think if the Jazz weren't willing to go over 4 yrs. / $50 million last year, they'll be reluctant to do it this year. I don't think they gained much new information over the past year. Okay, Hayward had a so-so year, but his value is based on what the market will pay. The Jazz knew this, and they could see how many teams would have cap space this summer. They could have predicted Hayward would have gotten an offer over $50 mil. If the Jazz were willing to go to 4 yrs. / $55 million last summer, I think they would have done it and given Hayward the extension.

What the Jazz have learned in the past year is that Kanter is a potential 20/10 player, that Burks can score at a high level, and that Exum is now on the team. So due to those factors, I don't see how Hayward is a max-value player to this Jazz team, and I'd be surprised actually if the Jazz match the offer sheet. They've been so careful to protect their cap space and flexibility thusfar.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I have no idea, nor will I even pretend to know. I like to imagine, however, that DL somehow manipulated Jordan into thinking he was going to screw us (like Portland did to us) and then we reversed it. Like others have stated, it doesn't make sense, from a business standpoint, to tell the world you'll match any offer before any offer is even made. Why would any professional destroy their only possible bargaining chip unless:

A) We're talking about a franchise player that everyone knows you're going to match.

Or

B) We're playing mind games. Utah has a history of making these kind of mistakes in the past, so is it so hard to believe we would do it again?

I think DL is brilliant.

When DL tells the league, "We'll match any offer," he's posturing in the hopes that no one will then bother to make a big offer to snatch Hayward away. The Hornets think DL is bluffing when he says this. They're trying to call his bluff. I don't think either the Hornets or the Jazz care about hamstringing the other team's payroll. The Hornets apparently want Gordon on their team.

 

[Zombie]

man let him walk.. give 10 per for parsons.. im dumbfounded that this dude wants a fkn max.

Parsons is getting 3 years 46m from Dallas (or Houston if they match). any other bright ideas?

 

[franklin]

1. The Jazz have not historically been a team that could consistently go way into LT territory. The Lakers, Blazers, Nets, Knicks, Mavs, etc. are in a different league in terms of the potential damage of acquiring/signing players for way above their on-court value.

2. With contracts capped at 4 or 5 years, why would a team trade a true superstar for a wildly overpaid role player? Precedent?

3. What the hell is a "utility"?

1. The LT is $13 million over the cap. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

2. Kevin Love is being shopped for Klay Thompson & David Lee. I have a hard time believing that a slightly overpaid Hayward ($1-2mm max in 2017) and three first round draft picks wouldn't be at least as enticing for a player of his caliber.

You seem to be worshiping cap space as the prophet to lead us to the magic land. That's great and all, but it's a one trick pony that's not all too promising. There are other options and I'm surprised you of all people aren't even considering them.

 

[TroutBum]

When DL tells the league, "We'll match any offer," he's posturing in the hopes that no one will then bother to make a big offer to snatch Hayward away. The Hornets think DL is bluffing when he says this. They're trying to call his bluff. I don't think either the Hornets or the Jazz care about hamstringing the other team's payroll. The Hornets apparently want Gordon on their team.

You are probably right. However, to think that the inner-workings and behind closed door meetings are that simple is ignorant at best. Also, if you don't think that teams try to hurt each other financially, then you might just need to stick to WWE, Canadian football, or other worthless fake sports like soccer.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Parsons is going to get 15 + mm a yr with the Mavs. Hayward is the better all around player, and is the guy we drafted. Hayward's 16mm yr and Parsons 15 mm yr is what happens when the cap explodes, coupled with more than half the league having money to spend.


Dry your eyes, go get a bucket, and scoop out my turd before it starts to separate.

Do it your self!

 

[Ben10]

man let him walk.. give 10 per for parsons.. im dumbfounded that this dude wants a fkn max.

LOL Parsons just signed for 15 mill a year with Dallas. When r u guys going to get that players in this market are going to get paid

 

[UGLI baby]

When DL tells the league, "We'll match any offer," he's posturing in the hopes that no one will then bother to make a big offer to snatch Hayward away. The Hornets think DL is bluffing when he says this. They're trying to call his bluff. I don't think either the Hornets or the Jazz care about hamstringing the other team's payroll. The Hornets apparently want Gordon on their team.

This.

The "stick it to other teams!" thing is so overblown and laughable. Zero chance the Bobcats signed Hayward to a contract just to mess with us. They overpaid a little in hopes of pushing us to the brink where we won't match.

Sometimes the thing that makes the most sense is the thing that makes the most sense.


£¥£

 

[cowhide]

Parsons is going to get 15 + mm a yr with the Mavs. Hayward is the better all around player, and is the guy we drafted. Hayward's 16mm yr and Parsons 15 mm yr is what happens when the cap explodes, coupled with more than half the league having money to spend.


Dry your eyes, go get a bucket, and scoop out my turd before it starts to separate.

So hayward is a better player. That is debatable but he certainly isn't worth an extra $15 million.

 

[trailing]

1. The LT is $13 million over the cap. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

2. Kevin Love is being shopped for Klay Thompson & David Lee. I have a hard time believing that a slightly overpaid Hayward ($1-2mm max in 2017) and three first round draft picks wouldn't be at least as enticing for a player of his caliber.

You seem to be worshiping cap space as the prophet to lead us to the magic land. That's great and all, but it's a one trick pony that's not all too promising. There are other options and I'm surprised you of all people aren't even considering them.

Rumor has it that Cavs is offering Wiggins for Kevin Love, and they are still reluctant to trade him away. Hayward or Klay/Lee is peanuts compared to a potential franchise player.

 

[GVC]

You seem to be worshiping cap space as the prophet to lead us to the magic land. That's great and all, but it's a one trick pony that's not all too promising. There are other options and I'm surprised you of all people aren't even considering them.

I am considering them, which is why I'm torn. Dallas and Charlotte have shown a willingness to pay max money for Parsons and Hayward, which complicates things a bit.

1. If you make a habit of massively overpaying players, assuming some other team will bail you out if you get into trouble, you may end up with a treadmill team and few options outside a complete rebuild. This hasn't been as big a problem for large market teams because they're less concerned about going into the LT AND other teams' players demanding trades toward the end of their contracts will gladly agree to re-sign there. Utah faces much stricter financial and trade market constraints.

2. Kevin Love wants out, and will only re-sign with a small subset of teams. Utah is unlikely to ever make a top player's list of places they'll re-sign. Klay is both a better off-ball player and better on-ball defender than Gordo. Gordo + spare parts might not get you much. As stated above, that there are 2 teams willing to sign players of this caliber to max deals may be a sign that Gordo could be moved for decent assets. Still, just today Boston collected a 1st round pick and a young rotation big for cap space. Cleveland and Houston are probably still looking for ways to shed salary, and other teams may surface in the next year+. I'm hoping the Jazz can work a sign-and-trade.

 

[GVC]

One additional note: Losing Hayward for picks/nothing also helps the Jazz improve their draft pick next year. That is, if Hayward is worth anything close to a max deal.

 

[Sexual Favors]

So hayward is a better player. That is debatable but he certainly isn't worth an extra $15 million.

Hayward's deal is a year longer (if he opts in). Jazz would prefer to have no player option for the fourth year, or have him on a five year deal. It's not saying Hayward is worth an extra 17 mm, or whatever it turns out to be, but that the two deals have different lengths. The money difference per year is looking like it will be less than a million dollars. No brainer: you go with the guy you developed, who knows the team and city, and who has a bigger skill set.

 

[Tarkanian]

Hayward and Parsons suc too much for that kind of money.
Sadly, Jazz will match and in the process would give themselves a royal screwing!

 

[fishonjazz]

i laughed at the op/thread title

 

[Sexual Favors]

Hayward and Parsons suc too much for that kind of money.
Sadly, Jazz will match and in the process would give themselves a royal screwing!

In last years market, these deals would be way too big, but just look at how many teams have money compared to what is available. We gambled and lost, as teams tend to do when they let their players hit RFA.

Who realistically could the Jazz get for under 63 mm 4. Yr, in this and future FA markets, that is better or as good as Hayward, and still young, (that can play both 2 and 3)?

We better extend Burks and Kanter this offseason. I just worry about the precedent that matching, or not matching this contract will set. DL royally ****ed up by not doing his homework and anticipating the amount of teams with money relative to talent available.

Still love DL, though.