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On telling someone who the "real racist" is

LogGrad98 said:
I thought church was for the sinner. You can only go to church if you are perfect?
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Of course you don't. But you certainly don't sit there, listening to the pastor preach forgiveness, and at the same time looking at everyone and thinking in your mind "he's a tool", "he's a moron", etc. Cos if you're not prepared to change, why go?
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Of course you don't. But you certainly don't sit there, listening to the pastor preach forgiveness, and at the same time looking at everyone and thinking in your mind "he's a tool", "he's a moron", etc. Cos if you're not prepared to change, why go?
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But maybe that represent progress. Everyone is on some kind of scale in regards to their development as a person in general and as a religious person. Maybe that would be improvement on his own personal scale. No way you can use that to judge someone else. Maybe I have improved from serial murder to simple postmortem necrophilia. You don't know.
 
LogGrad98 said:
But maybe that represent progress. Everyone is on some kind of scale in regards to their development as a person in general and as a religious person. Maybe that would be improvement on his own personal scale. No way you can use that to judge someone else. Maybe I have improved from serial murder to simple postmortem necrophilia. You don't know.
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Comes down to how willing are you to change, imo. If you go for the sake of going, not wanting to change, then I ask you again, why go?


Not judging, just asking the question.
 
I think the simple act of going would imply some desire to change, even if it is just to change a minor behavior to mollify the mrs. that you are willing to go to church.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I think the simple act of going would imply some desire to change, even if it is just to change a minor behavior to mollify the mrs. that you are willing to go to church.
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There are lots of reasons why one would go to church though, change doesn't necessarily have to be 1 of them.
 
The thing is, I go to church because I like it. I have no desire to change who I am, thank you very much.
 
cowhide said:
So you had a bad experience and then thrashed the place to get back at these jerk people. So how are you any different? I guess I am missing the point. The point of the article wasn't that racism doesn't exist against whites. It was that since white people imposed their racism through laws they were not really capable of being objective to what is or isn't race to the group of people who received this racism from white. The fact that you experienced a small dose of what some minorities have experienced should have been the lesson received that day. Was it?
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I gave a story that paralleled loggrad98.6's experience. Micro-Macro... If you want to get into the macro you'll find like everyone else has that I'm as sympathetic to racism in the US as just about everyone aside from O_B's legendary stance.

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I have a bit of an issue with your "lesson received" nose plucking. You do realize that the Jewish Holocaust largely grew in opposition of a movement by "minority" Jews casting the exact same type of racism on a region-wide basis? You just wrote off my Tongan racism story as quickly as those who wrote off mob violence in 1900's America and those who write off government nepotism. Ingroup exclusion is an issue no matter how privileged society deems you by some random regional-nonspecific statistic says you are.
 
Who the **** said anything about repentance? Show me the scripture that says, "Thou shalt not call a spade a spade, nor a tool a tool."

I have much to repent for; none of it comes from this place.
 
E.J. Wells said:
The thing is, I go to church because I like it. I have no desire to change who I am, thank you very much.
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According to the Ten Commandments, religion is about honoring God. Being willing to go to Sunday Services in any Christian church, or say a Synagogue on the Jewish Sabbath, should be first of all about honoring God.

The ability of a person to actually enjoy going to such worship services says a lot about sincerity on that point. . . . at least potentially. . . .
 
Well to repent requires one to turn away from one's sinful ways... so if one is unwilling to change then how can one repent?

I'm just pondering this out loud, its nothing to do with anyone in particular.


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So this bit about racism. . . . .

Being a good student of Ambrose Bierce, I early on understood the symmetry in human prejudices.

Nobody is ever going to convince me that whites are any different from other folks. Everybody loves their own kind, their own culture, their familiar ways. Anybody who is different will be treated differently. It's human nature.

You can make up your own "Commandments" about what others should or should not do, but frankly I'd rather deal with people straight up the way they are without facades or pretenses. In the Philippines there were some nationalistic or racially-qualified "Churches". The Catholic Church in Rome was not good enough for some, so they made their own Filipino church. There were several groups who devoutly believed the Philippines was the Lord's favorite sacred place, and Filipinos were God's chosen race.

The same kind of thinking exists in every nation, and every tribe. They will all make slaves of people who are different, if they can.

I was assaulted a number of times by people who hated Americans. . . . .

I saw them hate the people across the river just as much.

You have to be an armchair philosopher to get all wrapped up about "racism" in this world. If you are willing to just go out on the street and live a real life, you might end up understanding all kinds of people, and might learn to just accept others as they are, so far as they are willing to deal with you. . . . . Frankly, it's their own business if they want to hate me, or anyone else. . . . .
 
^^^

I would even go as far as saying that there is even racism within the same race, if you know what I mean. In Thailand people who are "Chinese looking" have paler skin and are often more affluent than the native "Thais" who often have darker skin. These "Chinese looking" Thais would often look down on darker skinned people and some would even avoid associating themselves with the darker skinned people. May be it's also to do with money... the rich associating themselves with the rich.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Comes down to how willing are you to change, imo. If you go for the sake of going, not wanting to change, then I ask you again, why go?

Not judging, just asking the question.
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LogGrad98 said:
I think the simple act of going would imply some desire to change, even if it is just to change a minor behavior to mollify the mrs. that you are willing to go to church.
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E.J. Wells said:
The thing is, I go to church because I like it. I have no desire to change who I am, thank you very much.
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I think I look at church the same way hotnickkk does. I look at it as a place where those that are religious/ spiritual can recharge their minds, learn new ways of looking at things via the reading of scripture and maybe even changing their outlook on life. As corny as this sounds, the last few years I've been more and more introspective and get excited when I see something I can draw from, whatever it may be and am able to use it in my everyday life.

When I hear Balloun say, that he has no desire to change who he is, well, that just tells me there's a lot of self hate there. How can you not want to improve yourself when you have children in your life and are a part of a family?

Log, sometimes I think people go through the motions of being religious and go to church because that's what's expected of them.
 
VINYLONE said:
I think I look at church the same way hotnickkk does. I look at it as a place where those that are religious/ spiritual can recharge their minds, learn new ways of looking at things via the reading of scripture and maybe even changing their outlook on life. As corny as this sounds, the last few years I've been more and more introspective and get excited when I see something I can draw from, whatever it may be and am able to use it in my everyday life.

When I hear Balloun say, that he has no desire to change who he is, well, that just tells me there's a lot of self hate there. How can you not want to improve yourself when you have children in your life and are a part of a family?

Log, sometimes I think people go through the motions of being religious and go to church because that's what's expected of them.
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Great post.


Thank you for your contribution to this discussion.
 
VINYLONE said:
Log, sometimes I think people go through the motions of being religious and go to church because that's what's expected of them.
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Oh undoubtedly. But it is still a choice that requires foregoing other choices (opportunity costs). If someone found zero value in it, I doubt they would go. Maintaining the facade can be the thing of value they get out of it, of course. But to me it still implies a certain level of willingness to do something you may not want to do over something you might want to do more, which implies at least a minimal level of willingness to change behavior.

It just seems rude to imply that a certain person's behavior implies they should not be going to church, or that church is wasted on that individual, or that it is firm condemnation of their hypocrisy, when in reality it may represent a fundamental change in that person of which you are wholly unaware. The perceived "un-church-like" behavior may be a huge step forward for the individual from previous patterns of behavior.
 
Well, I guess it's a good thing I have no pride.

But then again I also have no shame.

I think I'm in limbo.
 
I hate when people say white people can't dance. It's basically the same as getting frisked and humiliated by police officers because of your skin color. Basically.
 
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