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Only 4 of 29 ESPN writers say Gobert is DPOY

I had a nightmare last night.
I'm not going into details cause it was too horrifying and I feel like typing it could somehow bring it to fruition, but it ended with rudy in the hospital and I went to visit him. It was bad man. I woke up scared, sad, and angry.
Thank god it was just a dream.
 
I just hate the argument that Green is more versatile therefore he deserves it.

Surely it comes down to who has the biggest overall impact on the defensive end.
Dray lovers never seem to acknowledge that almost all metrics give Gobert the nod PLUS - Gobert's extra value is in the fact that he deters so much penetration! I mean, that is hard to measure. You can't have a stat that reads into CP3's mind and finds out that Gobert forced him to change his play.

Green deserved it two years ago for sure in my book. And Kawhi got it because he had produced a couple of excellent seasons on that end. I fear the same cumulative effect will work against Gobert here (even though he was fantastic last year). Green has put together 3 excellent years, and media types are waxing lyrical how he has done it without a rim protector next to him. (They also forget that Zaza is a top 10 defensive guy this year).

Sigh.....
 
fishonjazz said:
I had a nightmare last night.
I'm not going into details cause it was too horrifying and I feel like typing it could somehow bring it to fruition, but it ended with rudy in the hospital and I went to visit him. It was bad man. I woke up scared, sad, and angry.
Thank god it was just a dream.
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Well, with your liquor cabinet, Gobert prob would have been happy to see you if he was ruled out of the playoffs.
 
Et tu Brute said:
I just hate the argument that Green is more versatile therefore he deserves it.

Surely it comes down to who has the biggest overall impact on the defensive end.
Dray lovers never seem to acknowledge that almost all metrics give Gobert the nod PLUS - Gobert's extra value is in the fact that he deters so much penetration! I mean, that is hard to measure. You can't have a stat that reads into CP3's mind and finds out that Gobert forced him to change his play.

Green deserved it two years ago for sure in my book. And Kawhi got it because he had produced a couple of excellent seasons on that end. I fear the same cumulative effect will work against Gobert here (even though he was fantastic last year). Green has put together 3 excellent years, and media types are waxing lyrical how he has done it without a rim protector next to him. (They also forget that Zaza is a top 10 defensive guy this year).

Sigh.....
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Almost. Green is matchup-proof. He can be anywhere, anytime. He contested seven shots at the rim per game, as many as DeAndre Jordan, Anthony Davis, and Andre Drummond. Opponents hit just 43.8 percent of those shots, barely above Gobert's equivalent figure.

To guard the loot like that and switch onto Harden? Come on. Green is unmovable in the post. He gets his giant mitts on everything. He trails only John Wall in steals, and he's about to become the 10th player ever to average two swipes and 1.4 blocks per game.

He is the smartest defender I've seen since the peak 1990s Chicago teams. His anticipation is uncanny, as if he wakes up every morning to find a tape of that night's game on his doorstep, "Early Edition"-style. He moves in sync with every action. He doesn't arrive to the collision point on time. He arrives early.

Green is the one irreplaceable part in the NBA's best defense -- the main reason Golden State stiffened on that end during Kevin Durant's absence. Gobert would be a deserving winner, but Green's versatility gives him the edge here.
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Sometimes people just have different opinions.
 
Et tu Brute said:
Was that Lowe? I think I read that last night.

You're right though. Both deserving.
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I'd vote for Rudy.

Yah, that was Lowe's reasoning in his piece. It makes sense. I can't knock anyone for voting Green. He does everything great on the best defense in the league.
 
Et tu Brute said:
I just hate the argument that Green is more versatile therefore he deserves it.

Surely it comes down to who has the biggest overall impact on the defensive end.
Dray lovers never seem to acknowledge that almost all metrics give Gobert the nod PLUS - Gobert's extra value is in the fact that he deters so much penetration! I mean, that is hard to measure. You can't have a stat that reads into CP3's mind and finds out that Gobert forced him to change his play.

Green deserved it two years ago for sure in my book. And Kawhi got it because he had produced a couple of excellent seasons on that end. I fear the same cumulative effect will work against Gobert here (even though he was fantastic last year). Green has put together 3 excellent years, and media types are waxing lyrical how he has done it without a rim protector next to him. (They also forget that Zaza is a top 10 defensive guy this year).

Sigh.....
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I hate that argument too. I LOATHE it. Everytime I get into a discussion with someone about Draymond vs Gobert outside of Jazzfanz, or hear/see something in the media about Draymond it's "yeah but Draymond defends 1-5". Makes me want to pound my head against the wall. No coach in their right mind who has Gobert on their team is going to say "Hey Rudy, go guard the point guard this quarter". Not because he necessarily COULDN'T but because it's terrible f***ing strategy. Why on earth should that be a handicap against Rudy? So what they are saying is only wings can win the award then?
 
ncoloradojazz said:
those are geek stats because basketball I prefer eye test. Onbly stats I read is the basic ones
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That explains a lot. So the defensive stats you use are blocks and rebounds. For your eye test, how many of the 1,230 games do you watch?
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I'd vote for Rudy.

Yah, that was Lowe's reasoning in his piece. It makes sense. I can't knock anyone for voting Green. He does everything great on the best defense in the league.
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I can. The stats between the two don't compare at all. Draymond is a great defender, but this year Rudy is better. The only arguments they have for Draymond are 1. Team defensive efficiency is slightly better. With damn near all the individual advanced stats in Rudy's favor that shouldn't mean much. 2. He can defend multiple positions. They use this argument as some sort of advantage for Draymond because Rudy "can't" do that. When in actuality Rudy doesn't do that because it's s*** strategy. 3. Draymond was so close the last two years. Another dumb argument. This isn't a lifetime achievement award so it shouldn't matter how close he was.
 
I'm seeing some sites counting votes and posting results they've found for the MVP race. I wonder if we'll start seeing that with DPOY.
 
SCS said:
I can. The stats between the two don't compare at all. Draymond is a great defender, but this year Rudy is better. The only arguments they have for Draymond are 1. Team defensive efficiency is slightly better. With damn near all the individual advanced stats in Rudy's favor that shouldn't mean much. 2. He can defend multiple positions. They use this argument as some sort of advantage for Draymond because Rudy "can't" do that. When in actuality Rudy doesn't do that because it's s*** strategy. 3. Draymond was so close the last two years. Another dumb argument. This isn't a lifetime achievement award so it shouldn't matter how close he was.
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Its like people have different opinions about things. Draymond's rim protection numbers are nearly as good as Rudy's and he can do everything else at an elite or near elite level. I get that you don't agree, but its not nearly as clear as you make it.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
SCS said:
I can. The stats between the two don't compare at all. Draymond is a great defender, but this year Rudy is better. The only arguments they have for Draymond are 1. Team defensive efficiency is slightly better. With damn near all the individual advanced stats in Rudy's favor that shouldn't mean much. 2. He can defend multiple positions. They use this argument as some sort of advantage for Draymond because Rudy "can't" do that. When in actuality Rudy doesn't do that because it's s*** strategy. 3. Draymond was so close the last two years. Another dumb argument. This isn't a lifetime achievement award so it shouldn't matter how close he was.
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And I dont think you understand, Green's versatility gives him bonus points. It's not knocking points from Gobert, it's giving Green bonus points.

Draymond is the best defender on the best defensive team who greatly affects his team's ability to defend.

His rim protection numbers are up there with the best in the NBA, guys who are 5 inches taller than him.

He defends 1-5 and has great block and steal rates.

Rudy is great too. They are both great defenders. Some people just prefer Green. At the end of the day it comes down to people's opinions and very smart people are voting for Green. That's not to say smart people arent voting for Gobert also, they are, but I'm just saying maybe you should try to look at it more objectively. Lowe watches plenty of basketball and doesnt have much of a bias for or against Gobert/Green.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
And I dont think you understand, Green's versatility gives him bonus points. It's not knocking points from Gobert, it's giving Green bonus points.

Draymond is the best defender on the best defensive team who greatly affects his team's ability to defend.

His rim protection numbers are up there with the best in the NBA, guys who are 5 inches taller than him.

He defends 1-5 and has great block and steal rates.

Rudy is great too. They are both great defenders. Some people just prefer Green. At the end of the day it comes down to people's opinions and very smart people are voting for Green. That's not to say smart people arent voting for Gobert also, they are, but I'm just saying maybe you should try to look at it more objectively. Lowe watches plenty of basketball and doesnt have much of a bias for or against Gobert/Green.
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I do look at it objectively. Like I said, Draymond is a great defender. My problem is the voters and I know they are out there who are voting for Draymond because he didn't get the last two DPOY's and he's versatile. Look versatility is great. It should be taken into account but when it's the deciding factor that's my problem because it is a handicap against Rudy and all bigs.

Rudy is first in defensive win shares by a large margin, first in defensive real plus/minus by a large margin, at the top of individual defensive rating, 3rd in defensive box plus/minus, at the top in rim protection, first in all block categories, leading the top ranked scoring defense, leading the 3rd ranked team ih team defensive efficiency. The last DPOY winner to be so high in so many stats was Dwight Howard in 09-10. He's out classing past winners statistically. If this season doesn't win DPOY, what does he have to do? It basically says he no chance of winning the award ever.
 
SCS said:
I do look at it objectively. Like I said, Draymond is a great defender. My problem is the voters and I know they are out there who are voting for Draymond because he didn't get the last two DPOY's and he's versatile. Look versatility is great. It should be taken into account but when it's the deciding factor that's my problem because it is a handicap against Rudy and all bigs.

Rudy is first in defensive win shares by a large margin, first in defensive real plus/minus by a large margin, at the top of individual defensive rating, 3rd in defensive box plus/minus, at the top in rim protection, first in all block categories, leading the top ranked scoring defense, leading the 3rd ranked team ih team defensive efficiency. The last DPOY winner to be so high in so many stats was Dwight Howard in 09-10. He's out classing past winners statistically. If this season doesn't win DPOY, what does he have to do? It basically says he no chance of winning the award ever.
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Be the best player on the best defensive team.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Be the best player on the best defensive team.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
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Of the last 10 DPOY winners, only 3 have been on the #1 ranked team in team defensive efficiency. 15-16 Kawhi, 09-10 Dwight and 07-08 KG. So that doesn't hold up. This years winner won't be on the best defense either unless Kawhi magically wins because the Spurs are first, not the Warriors.
 
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